Jason Bourne wrote:I am not sure you can extrapolate that to the entire Church. However, we are at at dilemma because there are no totals to see or review.
And this is the dilemma Jason. If it were so cut and dry the financials would be reported.
Mormonism as an organization cannot be trusted until financial transparency is established.
Again, it is not just the LDS.
But when I hear the crowing some do about how the LDS church donates after I see what real charity orgs do, I just want to slap my head and grab a beer.
Knowledge is Power
Power Corrupts
Study Hard and
Become EVIL!
Jason Bourne wrote: I am not sure you can extrapolate that to the entire Church. However, we are at at dilemma because there are no totals to see or review.
And this is the dilemma Jason. If it were so cut and dry the financials would be reported.
Mormonism as an organization cannot be trusted until financial transparency is established.
Trusted? I doubt that the money is being used to pad the pockets of the leaders. There is just no evidence that one would expect to see for such activities. Also there is a lot of physical evidence for where the money goes. But to totally have trust in the financials sure, we need to see them.
Jason Bourne wrote: I am not sure you can extrapolate that to the entire Church. However, we are at at dilemma because there are no totals to see or review.
And this is the dilemma Jason. If it were so cut and dry the financials would be reported.
Mormonism as an organization cannot be trusted until financial transparency is established.
Trusted? I doubt that the money is being used to pad the pockets of the leaders. There is just no evidence that one would expect to see for such activities. Also there is a lot of physical evidence for where the money goes. But to totally have trust in the financials sure, we need to see them.
Who builds the buildings Jason? Who owns the companies that build them? How much do they charge? Who owns the deeds to the land temples are built on? Are any banks using the land as tools to borrow money? What bank do they use? Who sits on the boards of the for-profit enterprises the church shares income from? What and who makes up the familial ties between these organizations?
Once you answer these questions (honestly) and draw the conclusions that are obvious you will see a small group of families who steer the ten percent you give into their own families prosperity, staying above the upper middle class line through a lie that started in the early 19th century.
And crawling on the planet's face Some insects called the human race Lost in time And lost in space...and meaning
Jason Bourne wrote:Trusted? I doubt that the money is being used to pad the pockets of the leaders. There is just no evidence that one would expect to see for such activities. Also there is a lot of physical evidence for where the money goes. But to totally have trust in the financials sure, we need to see them.
I doubt it too, but members of the LDS Church should know and there should not be any question. I agree that members need to see them.
“I was hooked from the start,” Snoop Dogg said. “We talked about the purpose of life, played Mousetrap, and ate brownies. The kids thought it was off the hook, for real.”
Mercury wrote:Once you answer these questions (honestly) and draw the conclusions that are obvious you will see a small group of families who steer the ten percent you give into their own families prosperity, staying above the upper middle class line through a lie that started in the early 19th century.
I would love to see you demonstrate that, and I am not kidding.
“I was hooked from the start,” Snoop Dogg said. “We talked about the purpose of life, played Mousetrap, and ate brownies. The kids thought it was off the hook, for real.”
Jason Bourne wrote:I am not sure you can extrapolate that to the entire Church. However, we are at at dilemma because there are no totals to see or review.
And this is the dilemma Jason. If it were so cut and dry the financials would be reported.
Mormonism as an organization cannot be trusted until financial transparency is established.
Again, it is not just the LDS.
But when I hear the crowing some do about how the LDS church donates after I see what real charity orgs do, I just want to slap my head and grab a beer.
In the specific fraudulent acts the LDS church commits, it is unique to the LDS in timeline and the culture that it saps for strength.
And crawling on the planet's face Some insects called the human race Lost in time And lost in space...and meaning
Mercury wrote:Once you answer these questions (honestly) and draw the conclusions that are obvious you will see a small group of families who steer the ten percent you give into their own families prosperity, staying above the upper middle class line through a lie that started in the early 19th century.
I would love to see you demonstrate that, and I am not kidding.
Read Quinn's hierarchy, study up on how businesses and NFP's inter operate and then I don't need to demonstrate it.
Theres another individual I could turn you to in order to understand how the power structure of Mormonism works, but hes dead and enlightened me greatly concerning Mormonism:
And crawling on the planet's face Some insects called the human race Lost in time And lost in space...and meaning
Who builds the buildings Jason? Who owns the companies that build them? How much do they charge? Who owns the deeds to the land temples are built on? Are any banks using the land as tools to borrow money? What bank do they use? Who sits on the boards of the for-profit enterprises the church shares income from? What and who makes up the familial ties between these organizations?
Nobody owns any of the assets of the LDS Church any more then someone owns the assets of the Red Cross or United Way or SBC. It is an NFP. GAs no longer sit on corporate boards. I do not know what bank they use. There have been familial ties but that is not surprising given the small number of LDSers for most of its existence. I think the familial relationships among GAs is becoming more diluted theses days.
Once you answer these questions (honestly) and draw the conclusions that are obvious you will see a small group of families who steer the ten percent you give into their own families prosperity, staying above the upper middle class line through a lie that started in the early 19th century.
I would agree that those in the active leadership live comfortable middle class lives? Upper? I don't know. Maybe some. Spencer Kimball lived in a pretty modest home. According to the only GA I know personally, a 70, who was an attorney prior to his call, his current income is substantially lower then it used to be and he often does legal work on his day off from GA work to supplement his income. This does not sound like upper middle class. And certianly I do not see any of them living high and rich life styles.
Jason Bourne wrote:Trusted? I doubt that the money is being used to pad the pockets of the leaders. There is just no evidence that one would expect to see for such activities. Also there is a lot of physical evidence for where the money goes. But to totally have trust in the financials sure, we need to see them.
I doubt it too, but members of the LDS Church should know and there should not be any question. I agree that members need to see them.
Mercury wrote:Read Quinn's hierarchy, study up on how businesses and NFP's inter operate and then I don't need to demonstrate it.
Theres another individual I could turn you to in order to understand how the power structure of Mormonism works, but he's dead and enlightened me greatly concerning Mormonism:
OK, so what is it that J. Golden (my father's family's favorite GA) teach you about Mormonism, aside from the power of his name in getting him his position (or is that it?)? Not that this is a negligible lesson, but you have piqued my curiosity.
Anything you could do to educate me a little more on this inter-operation of NFPs and FPs would also be appreciated. Not being snarky here, but I am seriously curious, as I was in the earlier post.
“I was hooked from the start,” Snoop Dogg said. “We talked about the purpose of life, played Mousetrap, and ate brownies. The kids thought it was off the hook, for real.”
