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The Off-Topic forum for anything non-LDS related, such as sports or politics. Rated PG through PG-13.
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_asbestosman
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Post by _asbestosman »

RenegadeOfPhunk wrote:
Maths is of a higher dimension to us

...See - it's a nifty idea. Was it Euclid who believed that mathematical concepts literally do exist in some other plane? Can't remember...
...but this is one of the things I'd like you to 'prove' at some point :)

I believe it was Plato. Many mathematicions (like Roger Penrose) are Neo-Platonists. One example that Penrose used in his book. The Road to Reality was the Mandlebrott set (fractal). It is very complex an intricate. It wasn't something Mandlebrott really made up or designed. It was "discovered" by him. Penrose also mentioned Euclid in discussing it because Euclid noticed a difference between postulates and Axioms. It turns out the postulates don't always have to be true which gives us non-euclidean geometries such as found in space-time.
That's General Leo. He could be my friend if he weren't my enemy.
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_Ren
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Post by _Ren »

asbestosman wrote:I believe it was Plato. Many mathematicions (like Roger Penrose) are Neo-Platonists. One example that Penrose used in his book. The Road to Reality was the Mandlebrott set (fractal). It is very complex an intricate. It wasn't something Mandlebrott really made up or designed. It was "discovered" by him. Penrose also mentioned Euclid in discussing it because Euclid noticed a difference between postulates and Axioms. It turns out the postulates don't always have to be true which gives us non-euclidean geometries such as found in space-time.

Ahh - ok. Plato.

Right - I can see the argument. I guess the idea is that since we can 'discover' things in mathematics, that means that it must exist in some sense that is 'outside' our own minds. Real in an objective sense.

And I do agree with that to some extent. You can build a set of logical rules, and then from a starting point, 'discover' things within that logical framework - as a conceptual excersice.
But to then jump from there to these concepts literally existing in a 'higher dimension' or 'plane' is an unjustified leap in my opinion...

Objective framework doesn't necessarily mean 'exists in a different plane / dimension'...
Last edited by Guest on Sun Jan 27, 2008 1:09 am, edited 2 times in total.
_Ren
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Post by _Ren »

Imwashingmypirate wrote:I think I am talking about something totally different to you guys and so I will leave you two to it. I will follow the discussion if you don't mind though.

As you like. I don't wanna get too serious about this...
...if I'm wrong, I'm wrong...

NOTE: I think I'll drop out. I don't want to upset anybody over this...
_Imwashingmypirate
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Post by _Imwashingmypirate »

RenegadeOfPhunk wrote:
Imwashingmypirate wrote:I think I am talking about something totally different to you guys and so I will leave you two to it. I will follow the discussion if you don't mind though.

As you like. I don't wanna get too serious about this...
...if I'm wrong, I'm wrong...

NOTE: I think I'll drop out. I don't want to upset anybody over this...


Jeepers man, don't take things so personal. I just feel you guys are a bit over my head in this and I cannot find the right idea's and facts to formulate a logical sentence. This is all coming from my mind. I don't know enough about most topics. Meahasdhas I had leg cramp last night, now my fingers are cramped. It feels horrible.

You guys come across as knowing way more than me on this and I am just going on a whim. I know a little and rough idea's about what is actually out there in terms of publishing. Does that make sense? But continue because when I get the words I will say.
Just punched myself on the face...
_Imwashingmypirate
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Post by _Imwashingmypirate »

I want to awnser some of the recent posts, but I just want to say right now, I have Penrose's Road to Reality. I got as far as the prologue and a bit at the start. I was attempting to read two of his other books at the same time though. Shadows of the mind and the emporers new mind. As well as a few other books. So I am stopping reading for a bit, letting my mind heal and then I will start one at a time.

I think he knows quite a lot.
Just punched myself on the face...
_Ren
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Post by _Ren »

Pirate wrote:Jeepers man, don't take things so personal. I just feel you guys are a bit over my head in this and I cannot find the right idea's and facts to formulate a logical sentence. This is all coming from my mind. I don't know enough about most topics. Meahasdhas I had leg cramp last night, now my fingers are cramped. It feels horrible.

You guys come across as knowing way more than me on this and I am just going on a whim. I know a little and rough idea's about what is actually out there in terms of publishing. Does that make sense? But continue because when I get the words I will say.

Truth is I was worried about your blog entry. But I should have taken you at your word in that blog entry.
...thanks for filling me in on the details :)

I seriously wouldn't assume anything about - well, certainly my knowledge level. Sometimes I blabber on about a topic, completely confident that I DO know a thing or two about it, but then someone else comes along and proves I'm full of ****. I think you certainly have a strong grasp of the maths involved. More than I do - and I mean that.

I'm more into the philosophy of science, and what 'counts' as science etc. It's a slightly different topic I guess (i.e. it's not necessarily about whether the maths is 'correct' or not...)

Ok - I'm good to go! (Although, I'm not sure where we wanna go from here. Heh...)
_Imwashingmypirate
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Post by _Imwashingmypirate »

YOU tell ME I nee to find FACTS and you are into the PHILOSOPHY of science regardless of whether maths is correct or not. Tsh... XD
Just punched myself on the face...
_Ren
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Post by _Ren »

Pirate wrote:YOU tell ME I nee to find FACTS and you are into the PHILOSOPHY of science regardless of whether maths is correct or not. Tsh... XD

1 Zargbot + 1 Zargbot = 2 Zargbots

The maths is 'right' - therefore, Zargbots exist! :D

Q.E.D.
_Imwashingmypirate
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Post by _Imwashingmypirate »

LOL. Zargbots do exist I have one outside my window. LOL, Just Kidding.
Just punched myself on the face...
_Ren
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Post by _Ren »

Pirate wrote:LOL. Zargbots do exist I have one outside my window. LOL, Just Kidding.

Err - it's not fair to get help from the Zargbots whilst debating me!! :D

That's just not cricket!
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