MDB Book Club

Post by **_Bond...James Bond** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 12:28 am

I have to say that that is the best pair of silhouetted (sp?) legs I've seen all week. ;)

Post by **_Blixa** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 1:02 am

Awww....thanks guys. I've actually been a bit embarASSed by that shot. Even though it doesn't mention me by name, I'm a bit weirded out by its circulation---its become one of the iconic images of that performance. I can't tell you how many times I've run into it.

Post by **_Bond...James Bond** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 2:03 am

Blixa wrote:Awww....thanks guys. I've actually been a bit embarASSed by that shot. Even though it doesn't mention me by name, I'm a bit weirded out by its circulation---its become one of the iconic images of that performance. I can't tell you how many times I've run into it.

So what? No one knows its you...well except for you. And me (nice figure by the way...few can understand the importance of the hour glass in the mind of a young man).

PS: I just posted some new pics of myself on my blog...so you can marvel at my unattractiveness.

Post by **_Scottie** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 2:14 am

I'm just starting the His Dark Materials trilogy, if that might be of interest for a book discussion.

I would be really interested to see the atheist symbolism from others viewpoints.

Post by **_Blixa** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 3:25 am

"the atheist symbolism?" Not sure what you mean.

Post by **_Scottie** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 5:22 am

Blixa wrote:"the atheist symbolism?" Not sure what you mean.

Isn't that the big hullabaloo about His Dark Materials? The extreme anti-Christianity message in it?

Post by **_Blixa** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 12:10 pm

Scottie wrote:
Blixa wrote:"the atheist symbolism?" Not sure what you mean.

Isn't that the big hullabaloo about His Dark Materials? The extreme anti-Christianity message in it?

Well like all conservative overreactions this one is well wide of the mark.

I was just thrown by your reference to "atheist symbolism." There really is no "atheist symbolism," per se. Its not a book that deals in "symbolism." Though perhaps that is phrase bandied about by xtian scare mongers. Symbolism? No, nothing that simplistic.

The books are, among other things, a meditation on knowledge and knowledge acquisition. Pullman draws inspiration from William Blake for his exploration of innocence and experience, as well as Blake's re-reading of Milton. In its multiple worlds setting, the book reworks history and religious mythologies: in Lyra's world there is an oppressive Vatican-like religious/political institution that controls knowledge (including the progress of science). In this world, without giving anything away, I hope, there is a belief in god, and a worship of him, as well as characters which rebel against the dominant social order and its beliefs. But, there actually is a god in this world. The "fight" is not one of belief vs. disbelief.

Interestingly enough, though, in the religious traditions of Lyra's world, there is no mention of Christ or Jesus. In the world that corresponds to our own, one of the main characters, a scientist named Mary Malone, is a former nun. But here disaffection with the church comes from the issue of innocence vs. experience and not some "atheism." The books do not much deal with the religion/god of "our world."

In its treatment of knowledge and truth, the books do question and criticize the social and political role of what I think could easily be called extreme religious belief. There are some very nasty fanatics. But that is a long stretch from saying the books are anti-Christian, or even from saying they promote atheism. They do raise questions about organized religion. There is philosophical inquiry into the "nature of god," and much creative reworking of elements of Jewish/Christian mythology (minus Christ, though). They also draw on a wide range of literary sources: Keats's notion of negative capability plays an interesting role, for example. And they are also grounded in the science of "dark matter;" other mainstays of contemporary scientific theory also play significant parts.

I have to say, one of the effect's Pullman's trilogy had on me, and I found the books extraordinarily interesting and moving, was to challenge how I look at "god."

I don't see how there is any "anti-Christian" "message" in it. And only a very crude thinker could label a creative re-working of Milton's war in Heaven as "atheist symbolism:" such a theme implies an existing "god," after all.

Post by **_Imwashingmypirate** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 12:16 pm

I'm up for that. Coolio.

Post by **_Imwashingmypirate** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 12:21 pm

So is someone going to actually tell us what book to read, because I don't see any books being put forth to discuss???????

Post by **_Blixa** » Sun Feb 24, 2008 10:27 pm

Imwashingmypirate wrote:So is someone going to actually tell us what book to read, because I don't see any books being put forth to discuss???????

I don't know, pirate. There have been a couple of suggestions about how to proceed, but I'm not sure anyone has gone beyond that. I've already posted a good chunk of what I might have to say about His Dark Materials, though--heh, heh.

To tell the truth I don't have any experience with book clubs. My reading practices are probably much different. In class, except for short, dense "tutor texts" and poems, I always proceed by having the entire book read prior to any discussion so the work can be discussed as a whole. I can't remember when I went through something in a chapter-by-chapter fashion (which I assume is the book club method, though I could be wrong).

Anyway, let's hope people return to this thread and try to get something going. What ever happens will be interesting, I'm sure.