Is the Internet Confounding the Revision of History

[_truth dancer]

Charity,

Opinion, ideas, beliefs do not matter. Unless there is some sort of doctrinal teaching or practice that states unless one believes in the actual, historical, factual truth of every little thing in the Book of Mormon they are not a true member of the LDS church, you are mistaken.

If there is some official policy, say in the handbook, of which I am unaware, I would be interested in this information.

Your opinion on this topic does not matter. It means nothing. Regardless of what YOU think, a self appointed apologist is not a judge in Israel, a speaker for the LDS church, or a representative of Jesus Christ.

The reality is there are faithful, devoted believers, who do not believe in the literal historical, factual, story of the Book of Mormon. They go to the temple, have callings, and live good lives. I have NO idea what you have a problem with this. What does it matter to you?

I feel quite certain that church leaders are happy to embrace all those faithful LDS members who believe in the LDS church, pass the TRI, do their duty, obey the commandments, serve in their callings, and do their best to live the gospel.

Because YOUR opinion differs does NOT make you right. YOU are NOT the authority and judge.


~dancer~

[_truth dancer]

Hey Hope of Zion... my long lost friend! ;-)

How are you? I'm happy to "see" you again! Welcome to the board!

~dancer~

[_charity]

We really see things differently. From an ancient document kept by propehts, preserved by the hand of God, given to a young prophet by an angel, and subsequently translated by him through the power of God to some 19th fiction with some nice teachings in it is a terrible descent into ignorminy. Lots of books have "nice teachings." To put the Book of Mormon on a par with something by Dr. Phil or Steven Covey, as "nice" as they may be, is an insult. It doesn't matter if your decision maing process that so downgraded it was a long and thoughtful process. I don't know how or why you came to this conclusion. And I am sure it was only one of many factors which lead you away from the faith.

Excuse me, but where do you get off saying that the faithful friends I have consider the Book of Mormon on a par with Dr. Phil? Your contempt is palpable and certainly unbecoming a follower of Christ. My friends tell me they revere the Book of Mormon as revealed scripture, not as something akin to the latest from Dr. Laura.

I thought you said they and you thought it was inspirational fiction. Inspired is not the same as inspirational.

But your own story shows that TD's claim that you can be a faithful member of the Church and so regard the Book of Mormon in that way is a fallacy.

Don't use me as an example. I didn't lose my faith because it wasn't literally true, and neither have they. As I said, I know plenty of faithful church members who do not believe the Book of Mormon is an ancient record. So, obviously you can maintain faith in the gospel without accepting the historicity of the Book of Mormon. They do everyday.

Then please tell me what they think when the Prophet stands up and says the Book of Mormon IS an ancient document translated by Joseph Smith? What do they think when they read the Title Page where this statement is unequivocally made? Talk about cognitive dissonance!

I don't think anyone who wants to come to Church and participate in any way should be told they can't. But it is clear that the person who believes the Book of Mormon is NOT an ancient document has a mistaken idea. n just the same way that the person who believesthat the Word of Wisdom is optional, or that if it is inconvenient to go to Church you shouldn't be bothered, and that tithing is paid if you have anything left over at the end of the month.

But if they stick around, they may come to a knowledge of the truth. I am all for that.

[_charity]

Charity,

Opinion, ideas, beliefs do not matter. Unless there is some sort of doctrinal teaching or practice that states unless one believes in the actual, historical, factual truth of every little thing in the Book of Mormon they are not a true member of the LDS church, you are mistaken.

If there is some official policy, say in the handbook, of which I am unaware, I would be interested in this information.

Your opinion on this topic does not matter. It means nothing. Regardless of what YOU think, a self appointed apologist is not a judge in Israel, a speaker for the LDS church, or a representative of Jesus Christ.

The reality is there are faithful, devoted believers, who do not believe in the literal historical, factual, story of the Book of Mormon. They go to the temple, have callings, and live good lives. I have NO idea what you have a problem with this. What does it matter to you?

I feel quite certain that church leaders are happy to embrace all those faithful LDS members who believe in the LDS church, pass the TRI, do their duty, obey the commandments, serve in their callings, and do their best to live the gospel.

Because YOUR opinion differs does NOT make you right. YOU are NOT the authority and judge.


~dancer~

I would refer you to the FAIR wiki on the Book of Mormon historicity.

http://en.fairmormon.org/Book_of_Mormon_historicity

It says essentially what I said. It does matter. The Lord has gone to great lengths to say that it matters. But people who want to believe something different are certainly welcome in the Church, so long as they do not try to teach this doctrine to others, or convert others to this view.

[_sunstoned]

The internet has placed the world's knowledge within reach of almost everyone. No longer does one have to slog off to a research library and order and then wait for books and documents to be shipped. It is all right in front of us now, and in digital, searchable format.

One thing that the internet made clear to me, and that was that the church had be less than honest with its history and early teachings.

[_sunstoned]

Charity, you have made the claim over and over on this board that information has come out lately in support of the Book of Mormon. Yet you provide nothing to back this up. Just because someone wants so desperately to believe something does necessary make it true.

[_truth dancer]

It says essentially what I said. It does matter. The Lord has gone to great lengths to say that it matters. But people who want to believe something different are certainly welcome in the Church, so long as they do not try to teach this doctrine to others, or convert others to this view.

Opinions. Nothing more. I do not see anywhere where Jesus Christ is even hinting that if someone doesn't believe in the factual, historical accuracy of the Book of Mormon he or she is not a good Latter Day Saint.

Until there is official doctrine that one is required to believe in the factual, historical, accuracy of everything in the Book of Mormon, (or they are not considered a good member of the LDS church), members are free to believe as they wish.

And until YOU have the authority from God to judge others regarding their beliefs, heart, holiness, membership, and life, maybe it would best for YOU to let it go.

If the prophets, leaders, and God are accepting of those members whose testimonies are of an inspired religious text albeit not literal, why not follow their example?

From the FAIR wiki article you site:

If someone comes to the conclusion that the Book of Mormon is not historical at all, is there a place for him in the Church? Probably. We cast a very broad net. That person cannot go around teaching his heterodox views on the subject, but if he is willing to keep them to himself, he can be a contributing, active member of the Church, simply bracketing the historicity issue.

(Bold Mine)

~dancer~

[_hopeofzion]

We are free to believe as we choose...

I personally have a very firm and unshakable testimony that the Book of Mormon is exactly what it purports to be, an ancient record of a portion of God's covenant people, of the tribe of Manasseh, and that the people who made this record lived here in North America, between New York, Ohio, Michigan, Indiana, Illinois, Missouri...and the evidences for this that have been presented to me in this last year have been a powerful scientific backing for what I already know to be true in my Spirit. I also know that I am a Levite through my Father, and an Ephraimite through my Mother's line. I have a sure testimony of the Lord that the work of the Father, also known as a Great and Marvelous Work, and God's Strange Act is about to unfold...and surely, has already begun to unfold quietly, which is the gathering of the lost tribes to the place of Zion.

May the Lord bless you all this day!

[_truth dancer]

Hi HOZ...

Actually, my observation is that your personal testimony is more in line with Joseph Smith and his visions and revelations than the current apologetic perspective.

I find it odd that so many apologists discount Joseph Smith suggesting he had "superficial" knowledge and that they are more in line with truth than their founding prophet, as they bring forth new information that replaces Joseph Smith's teachings.

Some apologists argue that one must believe the historical, factual accuracy of the Book of Mormon, yet these same people discount Joseph Smith and dismiss his teachings regarding the location, story, and facts of the Book of Mormon. They "reinterpret" the Book of Mormon to mean something other than what Joseph Smith wrote/translated, in my opinion.

Would you like to share your recent discoveries that have given you your testimony of the HGT?

I'm curious if you think the LDS church is moving away from its teachings and some long held beliefs?

:-)

~dancer~

[_charity]

The internet has placed the world's knowledge within reach of almost everyone. No longer does one have to slog off to a research library and order and then wait for books and documents to be shipped. It is all right in front of us now, and in digital, searchable format.

One thing that the internet made clear to me, and that was that the church had be less than honest with its history and early teachings.

And yet, all the of source material for the anti-Mormon and critic claims comes from materials published by the Church and usually availalble through Deseret Book.