GoodK please give your top 5 biblical contradictions

[_Jersey Girl]

Let's look at John 19 KJV (Using the BLB again because now I'm married to it ;-)

Jhn 19:1 Then Pilate therefore took Jesus, and scourged [him].


Jhn 19:2 And the soldiers platted a crown of thorns, and put [it] on his head, and they put on him a purple robe,


Jhn 19:3 And said, Hail, King of the Jews! and they smote him with their hands.


Jhn 19:4 Pilate therefore went forth again, and saith unto them, Behold, I bring him forth to you, that ye may know that I find no fault in him.


Jhn 19:5 ¶ Then came Jesus forth, wearing the crown of thorns, and the purple robe. And [Pilate] saith unto them, Behold the man!


Jhn 19:6 When the chief priests therefore and officers saw him, they cried out, saying, Crucify [him], crucify [him]. Pilate saith unto them, Take ye him, and crucify [him]: for I find no fault in him.


Jhn 19:7 The Jews answered him, We have a law, and by our law he ought to die, because he made himself the Son of God.


Jhn 19:8 When Pilate therefore heard that saying, he was the more afraid;


Jhn 19:9 And went again into the judgment hall, and saith unto Jesus, Whence art thou? But Jesus gave him no answer.


Jhn 19:10 Then saith Pilate unto him, Speakest thou not unto me? knowest thou not that I have power to crucify thee, and have power to release thee?


Jhn 19:11 Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power [at all] against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin.


Jhn 19:12 And from thenceforth Pilate sought to release him: but the Jews cried out, saying, If thou let this man go, thou art not Caesar's friend: whosoever maketh himself a king speaketh against Caesar.


Jhn 19:13 When Pilate therefore heard that saying, he brought Jesus forth, and sat down in the judgment seat in a place that is called the Pavement, but in the Hebrew, Gabbatha.


Jhn 19:14 And it was the preparation of the passover, and about the sixth hour: and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your King!


Jhn 19:15 But they cried out, Away with [him], away with [him], crucify him. Pilate saith unto them, Shall I crucify your King? The chief priests answered, We have no king but Caesar.


Jhn 19:16 Then delivered he him therefore unto them to be crucified. And they took Jesus, and led [him] away.


Jhn 19:17 ¶ And he bearing his cross went forth into a place called [the place] of a skull, which is called in the Hebrew Golgotha:


Jhn 19:18 Where they crucified him, and two other with him, on either side one, and Jesus in the midst.


Jhn 19:19 And Pilate wrote a title, and put [it] on the cross. And the writing was, Jesus OF NAZARETH THE KING OF THE JEWS.


Jhn 19:20 This title then read many of the Jews: for the place where Jesus was crucified was nigh to the city: and it was written in Hebrew, [and] Greek, [and] Latin.


Jhn 19:21 Then said the chief priests of the Jews to Pilate, Write not, The King of the Jews; but that he said, I am King of the Jews.


Jhn 19:22 Pilate answered, What I have written I have written.


Jhn 19:23 Then the soldiers, when they had crucified Jesus, took his garments, and made four parts, to every soldier a part; and also [his] coat: now the coat was without seam, woven from the top throughout.


Jhn 19:24 They said therefore among themselves, Let us not rend it, but cast lots for it, whose it shall be: that the scripture might be fulfilled, which saith, They parted my raiment among them, and for my vesture they did cast lots. These things therefore the soldiers did.


Jhn 19:25 ¶ Now there stood by the cross of Jesus his mother, and his mother's sister, Mary the [wife] of Cleophas, and Mary Magdalene.


Jhn 19:26 When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son!


Jhn 19:27 Then saith he to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own [home].


Jhn 19:28 ¶ After this, Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the scripture might be fulfilled, saith, I thirst.


Jhn 19:29 Now there was set a vessel full of vinegar: and they filled a spunge with vinegar, and put [it] upon hyssop, and put [it] to his mouth.


Jhn 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.


Jhn 19:31 ¶ The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and [that] they might be taken away.


Jhn 19:32 Then came the soldiers, and brake the legs of the first, and of the other which was crucified with him.


Jhn 19:33 But when they came to Jesus, and saw that he was dead already, they brake not his legs:


Jhn 19:34 But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water.


Jhn 19:35 And he that saw [it] bare record, and his record is true: and he knoweth that he saith true, that ye might believe.


Jhn 19:36 For these things were done, that the scripture should be fulfilled, A bone of him shall not be broken.


Jhn 19:37 And again another scripture saith, They shall look on him whom they pierced.


Jhn 19:38 ¶ And after this Joseph of Arimathaea, being a disciple of Jesus, but secretly for fear of the Jews, besought Pilate that he might take away the body of Jesus: and Pilate gave [him] leave. He came therefore, and took the body of Jesus.


Jhn 19:39 And there came also Nicodemus, which at the first came to Jesus by night, and brought a mixture of myrrh and aloes, about an hundred pound [weight].


Jhn 19:40 Then took they the body of Jesus, and wound it in linen clothes with the spices, as the manner of the Jews is to bury.


Jhn 19:41 Now in the place where he was crucified there was a garden; and in the garden a new sepulchre, wherein was never man yet laid.


Jhn 19:42 There laid they Jesus therefore because of the Jews' preparation [day]; for the sepulchre was nigh at hand.
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Now, I think I got the hour references bolded. (This laptop makes everything slide around).

So, back to your revision.


Crucified in Mark third hour.

Is that where we're at?


What time for crucifixion in John? What verse?

[_Jersey Girl]

Contradiction #6

John says Jesus died at noon, Mark says he died at 9 AM

What you're seeing there is the difference between how the Romans (John) and the Jews (Mark) marked time in terms of days, hours.

The Gospel of Mark doesn't say that Jesus died at "9 AM". It clearly states "ninth hour" which as nothing to do with "9AM". I'll return to fill in the "blanks" on this post.

It's not a contradiction.

Goodk,

Above is the statement that you supplied regarding contradiction between John and Mark. You clearly stated "9AM" as in the portion of your post that I bolded.

In a previous post, you changed that to "third hour" for Mark. You aren't reading the whole chapter. Here it is for you with the "hours" bolded:

Are you unaware of the fact that third hour = 9:00 AM?

And you are right, I misspoke when I said death, I meant crucified. My mistake.

GoodK,

Your contradiction stated when "Jesus died". If he died in the third hour, why is he still speaking at the ninth hour?

Again,

And you are right, I misspoke when I said death, I meant crucified. My mistake.

There is still a discrepancy between the two passages.

What is it?

[_GoodK]

I beg to differ. If the entire thing were perfect and without a hint of discrepancy or variation or contradiction, then I think it is highly likely that people would use it as proof that the Bible is of divine origin. Of course, that is just me speculating.

That some people might do that doesn't change the fact that this would work against the plausibility of the text since it would expect us to believe so many different authors told precisely the same story, in all the same details. That's almost impossible.

What I want is for you or JAK or someone to explain to me how any of this helps the Christ myther case.

You want us to believe scribes with an agenda took over the text and used it to invent a legend, but at the same time we're supposed to believe they left all of these discrepancies.

The fact is textual critics cn verify beyond a reasonable doubt that the New Testament was written by various people. This means various renditions of events, would be expeced. How does this help the Christ myther case?

I'll let JAK speak for himself, but I think it helps (though I've never referred to myself as a Christ myther) because the only evidence for a historical Jesus can't agree on some big details of the story. This doesn't completely disprove the Bible or Jesus by any means, but it casts some doubt on the reliability of the evidence that we have for a historical Jesus. In my opinion.

[_GoodK]

What is it?

Sixth hour and ninth hour, Jersey Girl.

[_dartagnan]

Well, that isn't how historians see it. These discrepancies reveal exactly what one would expect.

In any event, why do you object to Jersey Girl's argument about the sixth hour?

Check out John 1:39 where we are told Andrew and Peter met up with Christ about the tenth hour, and "spent the day with him." Now if this were referring to Jewish time, then they met up and planned their day at 4pm. That doesn't seem likely. However, if he were using Roman time, then it would have been 10 am, which seems more reasonable.

So much for that contradiction.

[_Jersey Girl]

What is it?

Sixth hour and ninth hour, Jersey Girl.

GoodK,

You're hopping around.

Sixth hour for what in which Gospel?
Ninth hour for what in which Gospel?

(You previously stated 3rd hour in Mark for crucifixion)

[_Jersey Girl]

Well, that isn't how historians see it. These discrepancies reveal exactly what one would expect.

In any event, why do you object to Jersey Girl's argument about the sixth hour?

Check out John 1:39 where we are told Andrew and Peter met up with Christ about the tenth hour, and "spent the day with him." Now if this were referring to Jewish time, then they met up and planned their day at 4pm. That doesn't seem likely. However, if he were using Roman time, then it would have been 10 am, which seems more reasonable.

So much for that contradiction.

At this point, I'm not quite sure what I'm arguing with regard to to which hour. Give GoodK a chance to line it up again, okay?

[_Jersey Girl]

GoodK,

I posted the entirety of both chapters in question. Feel free to copy/paste from those. They're both from BLB/KJV. If you put the verses in question in one post and restate what you see as the contradiction, I'll be glad to try to address it.

[_GoodK]

Well, that isn't how historians see it. These discrepancies reveal exactly what one would expect.

You mean, that isn't how some historians. (oh no, not this again) :)

In any event, why do you object to Jersey Girl's argument about the sixth hour?

Check out John 1:39 where we are told Andrew and Peter met up with Christ about the tenth hour, and "spent the day with him." Now if this were referring to Jewish time, then they met up and planned their day at 4pm. That doesn't seem likely. However, if he were using Roman time, then it would have been 10 am, which seems more reasonable.

So much for that contradiction.

Slow down.

Verse 39:

He saith unto them, Come and see. They came and saw where he dwelt, and abode with him that day: for it was about the tenth hour.

I agree, if they were planning their day, it would seem odd to do so at 4 PM. However, I don't see that they planned their day at the tenth hour in that chapter. I also see reference to the next day in that chapter, so maybe they were "planning" their next day?

[_GoodK]

GoodK,

I posted the entirety of both chapters in question. Feel free to copy/paste from those. They're both from BLB/KJV. If you put the verses in question in one post and restate what you see as the contradiction, I'll be glad to try to address it.

Like I stated,

Mark 15:25 - 3rd hour

John 19:14 - 6th hour

Is this clear enough for you to address yet?

And again, are you aware that 3rd hour means 9:00 AM?