beastie wrote: In the past, in my wilder youth, I did experience some nearly mystical events from marijuana. .
I am glad I am not the only one. In fact, I did acid about 50 times as a youth but sometimes the marijuana was just as psychedelic and sometimes in a nicer way.
Some people asserted I was wierd for reacting so strongly to pot.
By the way; Now days, finally, at 50 years old, I can just "go there" without anything. I tried to figure out how to do that for a long time and then finally I realized I could do it--varying degrees of success but I can do it.
when believers want to give their claims more weight, they dress these claims up in scientific terms. When believers want to belittle atheism or secular humanism, they call it a "religion". -Beastie
yesterday's Mormon doctrine is today's Mormon folklore.-Buffalo
beastie wrote:The only time I touched serious hallucinogens was at 16, splitting a very small dose of LDS with a girlfriend and then going to a concert.
(bold mine)
Yeah, I've been on LDS for almost 3 decades and not once have I hallucinated from it--unless you count those weird colorful stars I occasionally see in my vision.
That's General Leo. He could be my friend if he weren't my enemy. eritis sicut dii I support NCMO
Yeah, I've been on LDS for almost 3 decades and not once have I hallucinated from it--unless you count those weird colorful stars I occasionally see in my vision.
snort!!
Believe it or not, I didn't do that on purpose!
I am glad I am not the only one. In fact, I did acid about 50 times as a youth but sometimes the marijuana was just as psychedelic and sometimes in a nicer way.
Some people asserted I was wierd for reacting so strongly to pot.
By the way; Now days, finally, at 50 years old, I can just "go there" without anything. I tried to figure out how to do that for a long time and then finally I realized I could do it--varying degrees of success but I can do it.
I love pot, and wish it were legal. But since it's not, I'd like to train myself to "go there" too. I was really into this idea for a while, thinking that if I learned to meditate and controlled the environment (I wanted to flash scenes of birthing universes and galaxies on the ceiling of a dark room) I could transcend reality. But I have a very hard time turning off my mind in meditation. (chatter chatter chatter chatter chatter chatter, JEEZ, shut up, will ya???)
We hate to seem like we don’t trust every nut with a story, but there’s evidence we can point to, and dance while shouting taunting phrases.
Moniker wrote:Well, I thought it could create mystical experiences?
It seems as if it's not harmful and isn't long lasting it wouldn't be so horrid to try it. I would have to weigh the risks, obviously. I'm being silly in this thread but before I put ANYTHING in my body I'd seriously want to make sure of the short and long term effects.
LOL Well, if you want to be sure of the long term effect, you will have to wait until about 10 years after they finally decide to start studying it seriously-if they ever do. The fact that it causes hallucinations and confusion is a hint about how it might turn out. Something is happening directly to the brain to make it malfunction. You brain is an organ. If I did something directly to your legs that made you unable to walk for a while its a good guess it wouldn't be good for your legs and might leave bruises.
On the other hand, people do seem to recover after its over. So I don't know.
Tarski, it's been studied seriously since the 1800s. There are no known cases of addiction, or death due to salvia. No known cases of brain-damage or any lasting effects.
It's not like this is some synthetic chemical that just cropped up on the market last week. It's a naturally occurring plant that people have been using for thousands of years.
Do I think a person should know what they're getting into? Hell yes. The potential for terror exists. But even with my panic and sheer terror that happened, I'd do it again in a heartbeat.
As long as the person doing salvia is smart about it, there should be nothing that goes wrong.
beastie wrote: I love pot, and wish it were legal. But since it's not, I'd like to train myself to "go there" too. I was really into this idea for a while, thinking that if I learned to meditate and controlled the environment (I wanted to flash scenes of birthing universes and galaxies on the ceiling of a dark room) I could transcend reality. But I have a very hard time turning off my mind in meditation. (chatter chatter chatter chatter chatter chatter, JEEZ, shut up, will ya???)
I have moslty given up on the quieting the mind approach. I think this and other stuff may be just dogma. I only do it if it kinda comes spontaneously.
For me, I want to experience in certan way. I want the world to be enchanted, or cosmic or something. I finally realized that what was facinating when I was in a psychedelic state was mostly the stuff that was there anyway. Its just that everything seemed different, meaningful, deep, rich and mystical. I decided to just look at what was there with that same mood and just let it deepen. Try to remember the way the world felt at that special high moment and then look at the world that way again. Don't forget that you are at all moments swiming in real consciousness, sensation and subtle thought and impression. Think that you are tripping and that you always are tripping but just fail to notice it.
OK, those instructions sucked. I guess I don't really know how I do it. Maybe I'm just old.
when believers want to give their claims more weight, they dress these claims up in scientific terms. When believers want to belittle atheism or secular humanism, they call it a "religion". -Beastie
yesterday's Mormon doctrine is today's Mormon folklore.-Buffalo
Moniker wrote:Well, I thought it could create mystical experiences?
It seems as if it's not harmful and isn't long lasting it wouldn't be so horrid to try it. I would have to weigh the risks, obviously. I'm being silly in this thread but before I put ANYTHING in my body I'd seriously want to make sure of the short and long term effects.
LOL Well, if you want to be sure of the long term effect, you will have to wait until about 10 years after they finally decide to start studying it seriously-if they ever do. The fact that it causes hallucinations and confusion is a hint about how it might turn out. Something is happening directly to the brain to make it malfunction. You brain is an organ. If I did something directly to your legs that made you unable to walk for a while its a good guess it wouldn't be good for your legs and might leave bruises.
On the other hand, people do seem to recover after its over. So I don't know.
Tarski, it's been studied seriously since the 1800s.
We haven't even been in a position to study it until recently. We had no idea how to measure changes in brain chemistry or neuronal function until just recently.
"Studied" for me does not mean just observing anectdotal evidence informally over the years. People have been drinking alcohol for centuries but it is only after we applied modern scientific tools and technology that we really learned what it is doing and what the dangers are.
Actual scientific proceedures are needed, double blind tests, precise measurements and proper statistical methods need to be applied.
The studies must be put up for criticism by scientific peers.
I am quite sure that has not been going on for this plant since the 1800's.
Drug lore is not scientific knowledge.
Scientists do not work for free. Are you aware of major grants funding extended studies of salvia?
when believers want to give their claims more weight, they dress these claims up in scientific terms. When believers want to belittle atheism or secular humanism, they call it a "religion". -Beastie
yesterday's Mormon doctrine is today's Mormon folklore.-Buffalo
This is to anyone that has done psychedelics or had mystical experiences under the influence: Do you think your perception of the world shifted? I always wondered if mine did. I have this nagging suspicion it actually did. Yet, I can't, now, quite pinpoint how that is. Years ago I felt acutely as if my world had shifted and how I viewed the world had changed, yet, I suppose with time that sensation has decreased.
Beastie, did you feel spiritual in the same way with drug use outside of drug use? I see people on here, and Tarski on MAD, saying they were similar and they were never that way, for me. I wonder if it is because LDS thought about spiritual matters that they made the link. I had spiritual experiences, yet, didn't really think of drug use in a very spiritual way -- it was just a hell of a lot of fun.
The most intense experiences I ever had were on DXM and, yet, they were not spiritual.
So, spiritual? Or no?
Last edited by Guest on Fri Apr 04, 2008 9:40 pm, edited 3 times in total.
beastie wrote:I think that its effect is highly variable. Some people experience mystical events, like my friend did with two of his tries. The first wasn't mystical, just odd. But he didn't control the environment carefully, either. He said that what he believes made the second two experiences mystical was the music he chose. The music was a crucial part of the entire visionary experience - almost controlling it, guiding it.
I read quite a bit about it after he tried it and couldn't find anything that indicated it was dangerous, but I'd do more reading, too. One of the most interesting things I read about it was that it may be one of the drugs that maya shaman used to trigger their mystical trances.
In the past, in my wilder youth, I did experience some nearly mystical events from marijuana. But even as a youth I was more skittish about hallucinogens. It unnerves me to feel like I've totally lost touch with reality. The only time I touched serious hallucinogens was at 16, splitting a very small dose of LDS with a girlfriend and then going to a concert. Not much happened, other than I seemed to "smell" colors.
I just finished reading some about Shaman using it. I actually had to write a paper years ago on shaman mystical experiences for an anthropology course. There were a few articles we had to read about different experiences and almost all of them seemed identical to my experiences under DXM. Anyway... so, I read up on some now with the use of salvia and I'm not too certain where I stand right now. It sounds rather interesting, yet, if it's rather frantic, and terrifying I'd rather stay away from it. That doesn't appeal to me, not in the least. Yet, I was informed that if it's grown, and nurtured that it would be a better experience -- I read a bit about that on the net, too.
Last edited by Guest on Fri Apr 04, 2008 9:42 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Moniker wrote:Well, I thought it could create mystical experiences?
It seems as if it's not harmful and isn't long lasting it wouldn't be so horrid to try it. I would have to weigh the risks, obviously. I'm being silly in this thread but before I put ANYTHING in my body I'd seriously want to make sure of the short and long term effects.
LOL Well, if you want to be sure of the long term effect, you will have to wait until about 10 years after they finally decide to start studying it seriously-if they ever do. The fact that it causes hallucinations and confusion is a hint about how it might turn out. Something is happening directly to the brain to make it malfunction. You brain is an organ. If I did something directly to your legs that made you unable to walk for a while its a good guess it wouldn't be good for your legs and might leave bruises.
On the other hand, people do seem to recover after its over. So I don't know.
I was reading that potency has a lot to do with the amount of confusion and terror. I was informed that by growing it that it's milder somehow, and not likely to create the problems experienced by others.
Do you think the same way of LSD and shrooms with your concerns above about the brain? Or just this one?
Last edited by Guest on Fri Apr 04, 2008 9:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.