Since abortion is murder, what should we do to punish those who participate? Since murder has no statute of limitations, how many innocent people will be left after we make the appropriate laws and give everyone their just punishments? Furthermore, will the law be able to distinguish between, say, natural miscarriages, miscarriages as the result of smoking or stress, and ectopic pregnancies that are aborted?
Also, since teratomas and fetuses-in-fetu are not human, should we be permitted to kill one of two fertilized eggs based on the fact that one may become a teratoma or fetus-in-fetu? Just think of the possibilities. We could use cells of those destined to become a fetus-in-fetu to do all sorts of weird experiments since they aren't human. As a bonus, we'd be preventing a difficult, even dangerous situation from occuring for the real human fetus.
(for those who can't tell, this is satire)
Abortion is murder [Faith-based]
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_asbestosman
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Abortion is murder [Faith-based]
That's General Leo. He could be my friend if he weren't my enemy.
eritis sicut dii
I support NCMO
eritis sicut dii
I support NCMO
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_Imwashingmypirate
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_Dr. Shades
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[MODERATOR NOTE: The new rule on flagging a thread as "faith-based" is hereby overturned.
Now back to your regularly-scheduled programming.]
Now back to your regularly-scheduled programming.]
"Finally, for your rather strange idea that miracles are somehow linked to the amount of gay sexual gratification that is taking place would require that primitive Christianity was launched by gay sex, would it not?"
--Louis Midgley
--Louis Midgley
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_GlennThigpen
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From an LDS perspective, the "abortion is murder" does not necessarily seem to be the rule. I will include a 1973 statement on abortion from the then first presidency:
"Harold B. Lee, N. Eldon Tanner, and Marion G. Romney, “Policies and Procedures: Statement on Abortion,” New Era, Apr 1973, 29
In view of a recent decision of the United States Supreme Court, we feel it necessary to restate the position of the Church on abortion in order that there be no misunderstanding of our attitude.
The Church opposes abortion and counsels its members not to submit to or perform an abortion except in the rare cases where, in the opinion of competent medical counsel, the life or good health of the mother is seriously endangered or where the pregnancy was caused by rape and produces serious emotional trauma in the mother. Even then it should be done only after counseling with the local presiding priesthood authority and after receiving divine confirmation through prayer.
Abortion must be considered one of the most revolting and sinful practices in this day, when we are witnessing the frightening evidence of permissiveness leading to sexual immorality.
Members of the Church guilty of being parties to the sin of abortion must be subjected to the disciplinary action of the councils of the Church as circumstances warrant. In dealing with this serious matter, it would be well to keep in mind the word of the Lord stated in the 59th section of the Doctrine and Covenants, verse 6, “Thou shalt not steal; neither commit adultery, nor kill, nor do anything like unto it.” [D&C 59:6]
As to the amenability of the sin of abortion to the laws of repentance and forgiveness, we quote the following statement made by President David O. McKay and his counselors, Stephen L Richards and J. Reuben Clark, Jr., which continues to represent the attitude and position of the Church:
“As the matter stands today, no definite statement has been made by the Lord one way or another regarding the crime of abortion. So far as is known, he has not listed it alongside the crime of the unpardonable sin and shedding of innocent human blood. That he has not done so would suggest that it is not in that class of crime and therefore that it will be amenable to the laws of repentance and forgiveness.”
This quoted statement, however, should not, in any sense, be construed to minimize the seriousness of this revolting sin.
The First Presidency
Harold B. Lee
N. Eldon Tanner
Marion G. Romney"
"Harold B. Lee, N. Eldon Tanner, and Marion G. Romney, “Policies and Procedures: Statement on Abortion,” New Era, Apr 1973, 29
In view of a recent decision of the United States Supreme Court, we feel it necessary to restate the position of the Church on abortion in order that there be no misunderstanding of our attitude.
The Church opposes abortion and counsels its members not to submit to or perform an abortion except in the rare cases where, in the opinion of competent medical counsel, the life or good health of the mother is seriously endangered or where the pregnancy was caused by rape and produces serious emotional trauma in the mother. Even then it should be done only after counseling with the local presiding priesthood authority and after receiving divine confirmation through prayer.
Abortion must be considered one of the most revolting and sinful practices in this day, when we are witnessing the frightening evidence of permissiveness leading to sexual immorality.
Members of the Church guilty of being parties to the sin of abortion must be subjected to the disciplinary action of the councils of the Church as circumstances warrant. In dealing with this serious matter, it would be well to keep in mind the word of the Lord stated in the 59th section of the Doctrine and Covenants, verse 6, “Thou shalt not steal; neither commit adultery, nor kill, nor do anything like unto it.” [D&C 59:6]
As to the amenability of the sin of abortion to the laws of repentance and forgiveness, we quote the following statement made by President David O. McKay and his counselors, Stephen L Richards and J. Reuben Clark, Jr., which continues to represent the attitude and position of the Church:
“As the matter stands today, no definite statement has been made by the Lord one way or another regarding the crime of abortion. So far as is known, he has not listed it alongside the crime of the unpardonable sin and shedding of innocent human blood. That he has not done so would suggest that it is not in that class of crime and therefore that it will be amenable to the laws of repentance and forgiveness.”
This quoted statement, however, should not, in any sense, be construed to minimize the seriousness of this revolting sin.
The First Presidency
Harold B. Lee
N. Eldon Tanner
Marion G. Romney"
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_ajax18
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For those who say that abortion is not murder,
Is a man guilty of murder if he punches a pregnant woman in the stomach and causes the fetus to die, or is he just guilty of battery? Or do we make up a different name for it and make the penalty equal to the penalty of murder as a means of sidestepping the abortion issue?
Is a man guilty of murder if he punches a pregnant woman in the stomach and causes the fetus to die, or is he just guilty of battery? Or do we make up a different name for it and make the penalty equal to the penalty of murder as a means of sidestepping the abortion issue?
And when the confederates saw Jackson standing fearless as a stone wall the army of Northern Virginia took courage and drove the federal army off their land.
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_Moniker
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ajax18 wrote:For those who say that abortion is not murder,
Is a man guilty of murder if he punches a pregnant woman in the stomach and causes the fetus to die, or is he just guilty of battery? Or do we make up a different name for it and make the penalty equal to the penalty of murder as a means of sidestepping the abortion issue?
There is fetal homicide legislation. Some states say it's homicide when the fetus is a certain gestational age, and others have no gestational age.
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_ajax18
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Moniker wrote:ajax18 wrote:For those who say that abortion is not murder,
Is a man guilty of murder if he punches a pregnant woman in the stomach and causes the fetus to die, or is he just guilty of battery? Or do we make up a different name for it and make the penalty equal to the penalty of murder as a means of sidestepping the abortion issue?
There is fetal homicide legislation. Some states say it's homicide when the fetus is a certain gestational age, and others have no gestational age.
Right, but that seems to be antiabortionist who push this. Sometimes it seems to me that the feminist position is, "Only the mother has the right to kill the baby if she so chooses, if anyonelse does, it's murder."
And when the confederates saw Jackson standing fearless as a stone wall the army of Northern Virginia took courage and drove the federal army off their land.