Split from Dawkins Thread

[_Moniker]

Marg,

Would you mind sharing your age with us?

I do think it's pertinent to this discussion.

Beastie, marg made a swipe at me for being single and Ren questioned her on it. She replied with this:

Ya the poor guy I've been dating and married to him combined for 40 years. I do feel sorry for him.

Marg makes comments about women's lifestyles -- she told GoodK to stay away from certain type of women. She is apparently attempting to make a correlation between me saying I'm single with wanting sexual attention. Apparently drug use somehow correlates to this, as well.

Needless to say she's a bit long in the tooth mentality wise. Like I said -- Charity in atheist clothing.

[_Sam Harris]

Marg just has some serious self-esteem issues. It's apparent in her need to demean other women, tell younger women what to do and think (as in her interaction with Pirate), and always have the last word.

You are right that she desires her worth and merit from JAK. She's one of those intellect harlots who feels the need to put credentials over common sense. Common sense would have told her to drop the "evidence" issue a long time ago. Instead she creates a six-page thread out of a sticky that Shades posted. Common sense would tell her that the number of abbreviations behind one's name doesn't always mean anything. Common sense would tell her that going on and on about your not caring about the contents of a thread, yet continuing to return to it would seem kind of, well, strange. Common sense would tell her that just because someone laughs at or disagrees with her arguments, that doesn't mean they're attacking her person (the rediculous ad hominem cry! I throw out ad hominems). Good thing her cohorts caught on and stopped that nonsense.

[_marg]

There are some women that are just women that are not ashamed of being a sexual creature, have intellectual pursuits, and have no deep seated desire to make other women feel like crap. I'm one of those, marg.

Good for you but meanwhile you say you are getting attention you don't wish from men, and you can't fathom it. And now you want to blame and attack the messenger who is pointing out that you are responsible for that attention. Go into denial, attack me, that doesn't change a thing. I can appreciate your response.

You often make remarks about other women on this website -- you've done so to KA, as well. You tiff tiff things said and wave other women off by saying essentially, "well you just use your looks/sexuality/whatever to get what you want" -- so what? Why do you care?

I've never said anything like that to any female on this board, not once. How sad that you are resorting to fantasy.

You told me I was obsessed with sex. You told Ren he had sexual fantasies about me. You told me that there is a correlation between me mentioning drugs in my past and desiring sexual attention. You told me saying I was single was desiring sexual attention.

Instead of yacking on about this Ren, bring the quote here and the context. My recollection is he was a male coming to your defence, and that you & he were the first to bring up something sexual. Something to do with sexual innuendo of chocolate balls, and then you played that up in a response.

How about this marg?

YOU desire your worth and merit through JAK.

So if that was the case, so what? I'm not complaining if JAK gives me notice or attention by remarking on something I've said.

It's obvious you do so, and you are threatened by other women that get noticed by men and you have to turn the tables and shame the woman.

What don't you get, I'm not making a judgment call other than to comment that you are playing dumb by saying you don't get why men seem to think you want attention as a sexual object.

You even told GoodK essentially that certain women he should stay away from.

LOL, yeah if he wants an easier life.

You DO judge women by drug use, lifestyle, etc... -- this was seen from your Jewish Princess comment.

You want to attack the messenger don't you. You want me to say, "Moniker, nothing you said should have given men any indication you wanted attention as a sexually available and interested female. I just don't see where they could have possibly gotten that idea from.

And in real life, I do judge people by their drug use. I worry about having people at my house, who are drug addicts as a for instance. by the way, GoodK that woman I told you about and linked to, that reminds me of Amy Winehouse just had her 2 ..7 mth old babies taken away from her from Social services who after testing the father gave them to him. The social services dropped in on her unexpectedly and tested her for drugs on the spot. Both cocaine and meth were in her system. They went to the father's place and tested him and he came back with clean results. He also had his aunt visiting so had just cleaned the place which from reports I'd heard had been such a mess, it looked like a drug addicts place. Unfortunately the social services will eventually catch him too. I doubt he'll be able to stay clean for long. And with his lifestyle he's not suited nor capable of raising the kids.

Yes drugs do make a difference on how one perceives someone Moniker. The father of that couple I mention we help, he's a nice guy, very likable, I wish him the best, we're close friends with him. I feel sorry for him with his addiction which has caused him many hardships in life. And I know his drug use, lifestyle and attitude are all connnected. by the way...the term Jewish princess I didn't make up. It is a function of their culture.

You hold a lot of deep seated animosity toward others, and their lifestyles and you're just the atheist version of Charity.

Right Moniker. I think this is more a function of you and your hyper sensitivities. Obviously you can't handle someone pointing out how you are responsible.

I don't care if you approve of me or what your take is on me. Yet, don't say stuff to me and not expect me to follow up and question you on it. You make generalizations and quite seriously assumed I was too dense or fragile to follow up with you.

Right, I say I'm not making a judgment call, but I'm commenting on your playing dumb. If you want to continue to play dumb go ahead. That's your choice.

YOU told Ren he had sexual fantasies about ME when we were discussing Dangers of Religion -- YOU think on that. WHO sees me as a sexual creature, marg? I wasn't even considering that. YOU were.

Go get the link to that thread, and we can discuss the context and development of the conversation.

I also have seen plenty of your posts at the other forum you, JAK, and Jersey Girl post on. You attempt to paint yourself as someone intellectually superior and you then wallow in the mud with hateful, vile insults that look like they came from a crass, simple mind. You don't fool me.

Good I'm glad to hear that.

[_GoodK]

by the way, GoodK that woman I told you about that reminds me of Amy Winehouse just had her 2 babies taken away from her from Social serves who gave them to the father. The social services dropped in on her unexpectedly and tested her for drugs on the spot. Both cocaine and meth were in her system. They went to the father's place and tested him and he came back with clean results. He also had his aunt visiting so had just cleaned the place which from reports I'd heard had been such a mess, it looked like a drug addicts place. Unfortunately the social services will eventually catch him too. He's not capable of raising the kids and if he has the money will spend it on drugs.

That is sad. Can SS just go and drug test any parent at will, or do they need a reason?
What led them to believe she was doing drugs?

[_Sam Harris]

An anonymous call from Rozita Swinton.

[_Moniker]

There are some women that are just women that are not ashamed of being a sexual creature, have intellectual pursuits, and have no deep seated desire to make other women feel like crap. I'm one of those, marg.

Good for you but meanwhile you say you are getting attention you don't wish from men, and you can't fathom it. And now you want to blame and attack the messenger who is pointing out that you are responsible for that attention. Go into denial, attack me, that doesn't change a thing. I can appreciate your response.

Actually, I stated WHY I am getting the attention and I've stated this repeatedly. What is wrong with your reading comprehension, marg? Yet, that I get the attention does not mean I seek it. I had NO clue that men would think that since I was a dancer 10+ years ago this somehow equated in their mind that I was essentially a slut. I get that now! I also think my inability to tell men I didn't appreciate certain behaviors helped to escalate the behavior.

You often make remarks about other women on this website -- you've done so to KA, as well. You tiff tiff things said and wave other women off by saying essentially, "well you just use your looks/sexuality/whatever to get what you want" -- so what? Why do you care?

I've never said anything like that to any female on this board, not once. How sad that you are resorting to fantasy.

That's not true. You told KA (about 6 months ago) something about her comments on sex. In the Dangers of Religion thread you told Liz you'd spice the thread up for her 'cause she was getting bored. Now don't YOU play dumb! I guarantee I watch this board and know the characters here better than you.

You told me I was obsessed with sex. You told Ren he had sexual fantasies about me. You told me that there is a correlation between me mentioning drugs in my past and desiring sexual attention. You told me saying I was single was desiring sexual attention.

Instead of yacking on about this Ren, bring the quote here and the context. My recollection is he was a male coming to your defence, and that you & he were the first to bring up something sexual. Something to do with sexual innuendo of chocolate balls, and then you played that up in a response.

Ren and you were discussing ad homs (ignoring the countless ones JAK made against me) and he mentioned the chocolate salty balls with a video to the South Park song.

Then the next day we were discussing the plagarism of JAK and you were pissy about that. Then you noticed Ren's signature line --you quoted his signature line and wrote this:

RoP: "I don't think my life will be impacted too much if I don't know the mythological stories of Shintoism" ~ marg
...after trying to repeatedly dispute the statements of others regarding the beliefs of Shintoism...

RoP, just because you have sexual fantasies of Moniker and I'm critical of her, does not mean you should resort to making up lies. Can't you get her attention and affection in more honest ways?

How about this marg?

YOU desire your worth and merit through JAK.

So if that was the case, so what? I'm not complaining if JAK gives me notice or attention by remarking on something I've said.

I don't care if you do or don't do it. Yet, don't pretend that you are NOT a woman that specifically follows one man about seeking his approval and worth. You do it. Then you go pitbull when I found JAK plagiarizing -- which is what this has been about all the time.

It's obvious you do so, and you are threatened by other women that get noticed by men and you have to turn the tables and shame the woman.

What don't you get, I'm not making a judgment call other than to comment that you are playing dumb by saying you don't get why men seem to think you want attention as a sexual object.

What are you talking about? I said WHY men do this. I've said it repeatedly. YOU say I desire it. No I do not. There are some men on this site that went way over and beyond scuzzy and it bothered me. I did NOT desire that and their behavior was not sought by me. I understand why it occurred and have already commented on it. You repeatedly say I desire it. Get through YOUR head that me saying certain things does not correlate to desiring a certain reaction.

You DO judge women by drug use, lifestyle, etc... -- this was seen from your Jewish Princess comment.

You want to attack the messenger don't you. You want me to say, "Moniker, nothing you said should have given men any indication you wanted attention as a sexually available and interested female. I just don't see where they could have possibly gotten that idea from.

No, I don't want you to say that. I want you to stop saying you don't believe men acted inappropriately and that I DESIRE that from men.

And in real life, I do judge people by their drug use. I worry about having people at my house, who are drug addicts as a for instance. by the way, GoodK that woman I told you about that reminds me of Amy Winehouse just had her 2 babies taken away from her from Social serves who gave them to the father. The social services dropped in on her unexpectedly and tested her for drugs on the spot. Both cocaine and meth were in her system. They went to the father's place and tested him and he came back with clean results. He also had his aunt visiting so had just cleaned the place which from reports I'd heard had been such a mess, it looked like a drug addicts place. Unfortunately the social services will eventually catch him too. He's not capable of raising the kids and if he has the money will spend it on drugs.

I too don't think drug use is appropriate for parents and wouldn't want to have someone in my home that was an addict. Yet, I don't think drug use correlates to a woman desiring sexual attention and can not for the life of me fathom why you would think that. You stated that me talking about drug use (non-addictive and the exact same drugs men on this site talk about) is desiring male sexual attention.

Yes drugs do make a difference on how one perceives someone Moniker. The father of that couple I mentioned we help, he's a nice guy, very likable, I wish him the best, we're close friends with him. I feel sorry for him with his addiction which has caused him many hardships in life. And I know his drug use, lifestyle and attitude are all connnected. by the way...the term Jewish princess I didn't make up. It is a function of their culture.

I don't dispute the fact that drug use can relate to how others perceive them. Yet, for you to tell me that talking about LSD or asking about a LEGAL drug that GoodK happens to do (is he desiring something by him talking about it?) is somehow equated to me desiring sexual attention. It is NOT.

You hold a lot of deep seated animosity toward others, and their lifestyles and you're just the atheist version of Charity.

Right Moniker. I think this is more a function of you and your hyper sensitivities. Obviously you can't handle someone pointing out how you are responsible.

I've taken responsibility for what happened and already spoke on that -- I should have told men to stop and finally did. Yet, you saying drug use, me being single, etc... somehow correlates to me wanting sexual attention is off the mark.

[_GoodK]

I don't dispute the fact that drug use can relate to how others perceive them. Yet, for you to tell me that talking about LSD or asking about a LEGAL drug that GoodK happens to do (is he desiring something by him talking about it?)

Salvia? I don't do Salvia. I've done it (once), and hated it.

[_marg]

by the way, GoodK that woman I told you about that reminds me of Amy Winehouse just had her 2 babies taken away from her from Social serves who gave them to the father. The social services dropped in on her unexpectedly and tested her for drugs on the spot. Both cocaine and meth were in her system. They went to the father's place and tested him and he came back with clean results. He also had his aunt visiting so had just cleaned the place which from reports I'd heard had been such a mess, it looked like a drug addicts place. Unfortunately the social services will eventually catch him too. He's not capable of raising the kids and if he has the money will spend it on drugs.

That is sad. Can SS just go and drug test any parent at will, or do they need a reason?
What led them to believe she was doing drugs?

Well it's quite an involved story. I'll call the woman "L" and the guy "J". He's an unbelievably good blues guitarist and singer songwriter, who probably would have done extremely well in the business were it not for his drug use and poor decision making. L has dreams of being a singer, like a Amy Winehouse. She worked days at a hospital and weekends ran the Karioke bar 2 nights at a local popular club. J was going through a custody battle for his daughter by an exwife, while living at L's place. They had an extremely volatile relationship. In fact the main reason we got to know him well, is she literally threw his belongings one night out the window to the street and locked him out. We were asked if we could take him in for a bit, until he figured out what to do. It was around Christmas time and they both decided to temporarily patch things up and spend Christmas at his parent's place. She got pregnant then. Now this is a woman with a 10 year old, already been married and divorced. It was planned on her part, crazy but planned. He was definitely a serious drug addict. If he got money which he did occasionally from doing hypnotism shows, he's get a over a $1,000 for a show, he'd go on a binge for a week at a time and spend it all on drugs. He toured Europe as a musician and left his band mates stranded with no money and he himself didn't show up to shows due to drugs. So she knows he has a serious drug problem, on many occasions, she had kicked him out of the place, yet I guess from observing his custody fight for his daughter, thought that by getting pregnant she could control him. So she has the kids, they are the cutest things, his parents buy them a mobile home, they live together and it's one crisis after another. She doesn't really want kids, she wants to party like she used to. She wants him to stop drugs, meanwhile she continues.

The couple first got the attention of social service because her mom contacted them. The story L gave social services is that he's a drug addict, she needs help financially to get away from him, he's the entire problem, she doesn't do drugs. The helped her find a nice place to live, she only pays $200 per month. In the meantime, friends of J want him to get clean. he agrees to go to counselling where he opens up and is entirely honest about his life and drug use. In his honesty he talks about her drug use. The cousellor notifies social service and they test her hair for drugs. It comes back positive but she claims that she was only smoking grass, grass being an acceptable drug to social services, and she says the grass must have be laced with other drugs. And they accept that, about 4 months later they drop in and test her with random unexpected test and she fails. So basically, social services were allerted and it was a matter of time. They had her mom who first allerted them, there is a history with this couple even to police, things like L calling the police when she'd have a fight with J and J being put in jail over night, J coming clean about everything to the counsellor who with kids involved had to inform social services.

This is why I say to you be careful. J certainly has/had an exciting volatile lifestyle with L, never a dull moment.

[_Moniker]

I don't dispute the fact that drug use can relate to how others perceive them. Yet, for you to tell me that talking about LSD or asking about a LEGAL drug that GoodK happens to do (is he desiring something by him talking about it?)

Salvia? I don't do Salvia. I've done it (once), and hated it.

I've never done it. I haven't done Ketamine either. Yet, don't speak more on it -- men will start hitting on you and marg will say you desire it.

Absurd!

[_GoodK]

Yet, don't speak more on it -- men will start hitting on you

Too late :)