rcrocket wrote:And thus we see the essence of Shade's integrity. Lie when it suits you, even to harm the mother of your children.
He's not harming anyone. She signed the contract; he's merely defending what's rightfully his--his raise.
You wanna talk about who has integrity and who doesn't, then perhaps you can tell us why she's going back to court to get her paws on his raise.
Because it is lawful and the law permits it.
I don't know Scottie's circumstances at all, so I speak generically. But women's rights in a divorce stem from the usual fact that they give up career and a livelihood to stay at home and raise children. They are entitled to a certain amount of their husband's income when there is a divorce -- for child support or spousal support. If the husband's conditions improve, then the laws of most states give that spouse some rights in that improvement.
Women, historically, have been given the shaft in the economic end of a divorce. They usually bear the burden of child raising in a divorce. Most -- and I know I am correct -- most ex-husbands either don't pay what they owe or lie about what they make to protect their income from the rightful application of the law.
Your advice to him to lie cannot be justified on what you perceive is a lie she is making; that advice is despicable and demonstrates real, fundamental problems with your character. I was frankly surprised that you -- who have demonstrated moderation in the past -- were willing to say this in public.
Character counts, but not with you. I am beginning to see your paradigm for rejecting the Church.
I kind of agree with rcrocket. The social contract of marriage redistributes income after a marriage based on the factors he describes, and for good reason. It is wrong for one spouse to lie about income to avoid fulfilling the social contract. And it's manifestly stupid - in most states, the other spouse has a right to request a periodic declaration of income, and it would be terribly obvious if one were to lie.
But again, none of this stops Scottie from asking the court for a timetable for termination of support and to set expectations for his exwife to earn a living.
Divorce sucks for so many reasons, including the financial aspects. But it's no reason to make someone into a liar or cause one to hide income.
I may be going to hell in a bucket, babe / But at least I'm enjoying the ride.
-Grateful Dead (lyrics by John Perry Barlow)
My advice is to pay for the lawyer if you really think you're being shafted. Child support won't last forever, and if alimony were ever recalculated after child support ends, then I think Tom Leykis would have mentioned that so I think you're ok there. When I was considering a divorce a while back, I went to a lawyer, and I never followed up because he wouldn't listen, all he could tell me is how much money I'd get screwed out of if I didn't act immediatly. I was thinking, "Dude, that's nothing compared to what I'm getting screwed for staying married!" I would have by my own free will, given her more than she was entitled legally and moirally just so I could sleep at night, but then draw the line in the sand and hold my foot down after that. I know one guy who's paying for 2 previous marriages and working on the next one he'll be paying for. But he makes so much, he doesn't care. I also know a woman who married a loser and she's going to end up paying quite a bit in spouse support since he doesn't work much. It cuts both ways.
Something to keep in mind, if she is as lazy and inept as you claim, then no matter what she's getting from you, she's suffering far more than you are. If I were you, I'd keep focused on what YOU can do about your situation. You can't lose track of your problems, but you also don't have to dwell on them and often there's a way out. Think of all the good things: Are you dying of cancer or afflicted with some terrible disease? Are you more or less healthy? If yes, than the next question is easy because you're an IT manager so you are already in a good industry, not as good as Bob's, but still good! What you need to do my friend, is focus on career. On making more money. I have no idea where you're at now, if you're in UT than you could certainly do better. For starters, yeah, you need to get out fo Utah. You also need to start testing the job market and get uncomfortable. work on your resume, test it, spend 6 months reworking it over and over until you're overloaded with hits. Interview as many places you can, even places you don't want to work, just for the practice. Turn it into a game.
Unless you are senior level management making 180-250k, then you need to start looking for jobs that pay hourly, more and more companies are having to do this as they are getting sued. This gives you the benefit of overtime pay, plus the flexibility to consult on the side. While you're working on all this, you need to start reading and learning how to set yourself up as a corporation and get into consulting. You need to start networking with other consultants and how to properly work contract jobs. I know guys who make 200k a year and work 9 months a year. And once you start building yourself up to that level, you begin to circle with more successful people and unexpected opportunities arise.
I'm not at that level, but, I will tell you the last year and a half has been the most difficult time of my life and thrown me into situations I'd never, ever had seen myself going through. I won't talk about the low point I was at, but when I say low, I mean low in really scary ways. I kind of got pushed over the edge, none of it was really my fault, but while i was undeserving, I learned some hard lessons in dealing with challenges in the right way. I can't even relate to you the stress and fears I had, the panic attacks I started going through, the twists and turns, and it's really not over yet. But I've done a lot, and about a year after starting down the right path, with a lot of setbacks and some humiliation, I should make 60% more this year than I did last year (in your industry) and I'm just getting started. Yeah, I'm a workaholic, but you know what? It's kind of fun, I mean, is it really that much worse to be working rather than posting on message boards?
I feel better about life, I feel more in control, more useful, and I get more respect (not to mention women at restaraunts etc. try and flirt which rarely happened before). I know I'm on the right path now so I don't have to worry about being broke because I'm working my way out. So the new car will come soon, if I want to stop and eat a 30$ steak, I do what I want. (on the whole I'm pretty easily amused I don't have to spend THAT much). Heck, if you're single, you aren't tied to anywhere and you have no time constraints at all. I've held back. Just out of circumstance from having gone down this path and meeting the right people, I've got into some other things too, and while I don't care that much about it, if I wanted to hang out at parties at the Playboy mansion, I could be doing so. I kid you not. Most importantly, I've met people who are good examples of turning problems into successes, who aren't complainers, who know how to continually better themselves even when they're getting screwed.
None of it would have happened if my life didn't get flushed down the toilet last year, oddly enough.
Here's why I hate the social contract of marriage. My wife has more education than I do. We work at comparabe enginering jobs. However, since we've been raised with gender roles, if she doesn't want to work, she can quit any time. I don't have that option. If she wants to divorce me, I get screwed even though she has more education than me and even though I would be happy having us both work and both raise kids or even if I wanted to be a stay at home dad (not an option unfortunately).
That's General Leo. He could be my friend if he weren't my enemy. eritis sicut dii I support NCMO
Scottie wrote:It might be cheaper just to pay the alimony than a couple of grand on lawyer fees.
Couple grand is absolutely nothing, If I were you I'd invest the money to get her off my back any way I could.
Do not think conservative, defensive.
You do not owe her alimony. You do pay child support already.
If I were you, I'd fight.
asbestosman wrote:Here's why I hate the social contract of marriage. My wife has more education than I do. We work at comparabe enginering jobs. However, since we've been raised with gender roles, if she doesn't want to work, she can quit any time. I don't have that option. If she wants to divorce me, I get screwed even though she has more education than me and even though I would be happy having us both work and both raise kids or even if I wanted to be a stay at home dad (not an option unfortunately).
Why isn't being a stay at home Dad an option? If she is making more money than you, it could be.
liz3564 wrote:Why isn't being a stay at home Dad an option? If she is making more money than you, it could be.
According to church and family, earning money is the man's responsibility. Unless I'm disabled, laid off, or otherwise unable to work, it's up to me.
Oh, and in case of ties on any decisions, the woman is always right. That's what I learned growing up anyhow. The woman is usually thinking about important things like children while the man is more likely to be selfish, lazy, etc. Nevermind if the man can't understand why we need "nice" furniture when pioneers made due with less.
That's General Leo. He could be my friend if he weren't my enemy. eritis sicut dii I support NCMO