Keith Olbermann vs. George Bush

[_moksha]

These official credentials are, or course, of little relevance to the manner in which these people have chosen to comport themselves during the bulk of their careers. I would say a "real" journalist is fair minded and balanced in their reporting, which would not only involve the airing of different legitimates sides of an issue or event, but the choice of what to report. Serious checking of facts and evidence, as well as intellectual substance would also be factors (all of which are seriously lacking in today's leftist factoid/activism/fluff story oriented media). A real journalist would make serious attempts at objectivity and balance in their reporting, and not simply behave as shills and cheerleaders for fashionable causes to which they subscribe. A real journalist would make every attempt to remain dispassionate about his material, and not take a side on every issue he reports before it is reported, or deemed newsworthy.

That is a great discription of alot of the right wing blowhearts. Do you include Hannity, Limbaugh, etc in the mainstream media who are all about fluff?

No, if they agree with Droopy, they are okay. It is the people we disagree with who have all negative qualities.

[_Droopy]

That is a great discription of alot of the right wing blowhearts. Do you include Hannity, Limbaugh, etc in the mainstream media who are all about fluff?

That would be in the eye of the beholder, perhaps, or perhaps not. I find Limbaugh's analysis of news events on many occasions far more intellectually substantive than virtually anything in the mainstream media generally speaking. But then again, Limbaugh and Hannity are pundits and analysts, not news journalists, and do not claim to be.

The problem with the mainstream media is not so much its monocultural liberalism as its tendentious activist journalism; journalism as politics by other means. The one, however, does flow directly from the other.

[_Droopy]

If one cannot, Bond, tell the difference between what talk show pundits like Limbaugh, or critical social and political philosophers like the late William Buckley do, and what Dan Rather, Barbara Walters, or Katie Couric claim to be (and ideally should be) doing as news journalists, we will have a problem communicating on the subject of media bias.

[_Gazelam]

Coggins,

Do you have any artricles or links on all of the chemical burns and sicknesses the soldiers in Iraq have been gettings as they have been cleaning up all of the weapons caches over there?

[_Bond...James Bond]

That is a great discription of alot of the right wing blowhearts. Do you include Hannity, Limbaugh, etc in the mainstream media who are all about fluff?

That would be in the eye of the beholder, perhaps, or perhaps not. I find Limbaugh's analysis of news events on many occasions far more intellectually substantive than virtually anything in the mainstream media generally speaking.

Did you even watch the clip that CK posted? I think that the analysis is right on. Seriously. Bush gives up golf like he making a major sacrifice and Olbermann calls him on it as a pathetic sacrifice in comparision to the families of soldiers making the ultimate sacrifice. Seems pretty clear cut to me. Don't you think it's a weak sacrifice? Y/N

But then again, Limbaugh and Hannity are pundits and analysts, not news journalists, and do not claim to be.

The problem with the mainstream media is not so much its monocultural liberalism as its tendentious activist journalism; journalism as politics by other means. The one, however, does flow directly from the other.

Alright. Hannity and Colmes (which is dominated by Hannity who also acts as a producer of some sort) present news stories (journalism!) and then comment on them. What they do is nothing different from what Olbermann does (present news stories and then comment on them). [Of course Olbermann is at least credentialed. Hannity is just a loud mouth with an opinion]. Limbaugh does the same thing. This new age journalism (both on TV and radio) is journalism with an opinion because it has been proven to sell.

So I think you have to lump them in with the mainstream media you disagree with. They want to act apart but they're part of the same conglomerate with Rather and Walters and these old guard media types (who are quickly becoming outdated). Limbaugh is no different than anyone else in the mainstream media. You just won't call him part of the mainstream media you dislike because he is on the Right side of things, right?

[Guest]

So I think you have to lump them in with the mainstream media you disagree with. They want to act apart but they're part of the same conglomerate with Rather and Walters and these old guard media types (who are quickly becoming outdated). Limbaugh is no different than anyone else in the mainstream media. You just won't call him part of the mainstream media you dislike because he is on the Right side of things, right?

This is tortured argumentation and it is becoming tedious wading through it Bond. Hannity, Limbaugh, Ingram, Hewitt et al, are not reporters; they are not news journalists per se, and they do not claim to be. They are pundits; they present news and then analyze that news. They are commentators. News journalists are supposed to keep editorial content and analysis strictly separate from news reporting per se. The problem with the leftist old media is precisely that they do not; there is no way to tell where editorial content ends and objective, disinterested reporting of news begins (well, there is, but one must be very intellectually engaged and sensitive to the tricks of the trade of the liberal media to perceive it, on some occasions).

Olbermann is a ranting left wing airhead of the Michael Moore variety, who has nothing whatever intelligent to say about anything. If he is to be understood as a pundit, then so be it. My problem is with those like Couric, Walters, Rather, Jennings, Chung, Amanpour, Blitzer, Cronkite, Gibson, Williams etc., who either cannot or will not differentiate between news and editorial commentary upon it.

[_Droopy]

Coggins,

Do you have any artricles or links on all of the chemical burns and sicknesses the soldiers in Iraq have been gettings as they have been cleaning up all of the weapons caches over there?

No I don't. To be frank, I wasn't even aware of the issue.

[_Coca Cola]

Coggins,

Do you have any artricles or links on all of the chemical burns and sicknesses the soldiers in Iraq have been gettings as they have been cleaning up all of the weapons caches over there?

No I don't. To be frank, I wasn't even aware of the issue.

That's because the supposed "liberal" media (owned by corporate America) won't report many stories. The news media is actually very conservative and follows the corporate agenda. The idea that it is "liberal" (politically liberal, that is) is actually a widely believed myth.

Here is a sampling of some of the most important stories they will not report on, because they are too controversial:

http://www.projectcensored.org/top-stories/category/y-2008/

Check them out. It is really interesting. These stories should be covered by the mainstream media.

[_Trevor]

Here is a sampling of some of the most important stories they will not report on, because they are too controversial:

http://www.projectcensored.org/top-stories/category/y-2008/

Check them out. It is really interesting. These stories should be covered by the mainstream media.

OMG! These stories are hair raising!

[_Droopy]

That's because the supposed "liberal" media (owned by corporate America) won't report many stories. The news media is actually very conservative and follows the corporate agenda. The idea that it is "liberal" (politically liberal, that is) is actually a widely believed myth.

Here is a sampling of some of the most important stories they will not report on, because they are too controversial:

War is peace, freedom is slavery, truth is falsehood, black is white, anything, any lie, and deceit, any deception, no matter how obvious, how easily dismissed by facts and history, and how obviously insulting to one's intelligence, for the cause.

Between the tin foil hats and the Kool Aid, the Left is more than living up to its reputation as a repository of the intellectual and moral dregs of modern culture.