Okay Bond! You win.

[_gramps]

16 more to go.

Merely replying so gramps will reply to me and then only 15 more to go!

Hi, Moniker! Long time and all that....

Thanks for dropping in. Yes, 15 to go. I fear that may take another couple of weeks, however, to reach. I'm not that young Scottish dame that popped in here earlier. :)

Anyway, I just realized (really) that my 50th is this year, in September. So, it looks like Bruges for my birthday.

I'll trust Ray and Blixa on the prostitute question. I didn't doubt it with companions for the evening. But, not prostitutes, even though, they be high-class prostitutes. Obviously, only rich people would know this? ;)

I learn something new everyday. :)

[_gramps]

Hey, someone clear this up for me: I didn't know there were classes of prostitutes that can be kissed. Was that accurate? I'm not very experienced in this regard. :)

There are.

That should get gramps going. :)

Hi Ray! Thanks for dropping in.

Thanks for the information. It's always good to know. I am, indeed, interested in the phenomenon. It is a thriving business.

I was just in Amsterdam three weeks ago. For 10 years running, I've seen the same woman behind a window, near the Old Church, in the red-light district. I've sat next to the church eating lunch or dinner to see her clientele. 90% are 50-65 year old, straight, business men, even banker types. Often a top hat. You get the idea.

She would be now....65-70 years old or so. A good 200 lbs. But, her window seems to be closed indefinitely. I guess sometime you've got to quit.

Anyway, if I make it to Bruges, it will be for the architecture, primarily.

And a little of each of the 350 beers or so for which they are famous.

How are things down there?

[_Ray A]

Thanks for the information. It's always good to know. I am, indeed, interested in the phenomenon. It is a thriving business.

I was just in Amsterdam three weeks ago. For 10 years running, I've seen the same woman behind a window, near the Old Church, in the red-light district. I've sat next to the church eating lunch or dinner to see her clientele. 90% are 50-65 year old, straight, business men, even banker types. Often a top hat. You get the idea.

She would be now....65-70 years old or so. A good 200 lbs. But, her window seems to be closed indefinitely. I guess sometime you've got to quit.

Hi gramps, always good to have a conversation with you. Check out this article for a start,

Who pays for sex? You'd be surprised

The stereotypical “John” who uses prostitutes is a middle-aged, empty soul whom you might spot slinking around red-light districts in an outsized mac and stained trousers. The uncomfortable truth, though, is that most men who pay for sex are just “regular guys” — colleagues, brothers, fathers, sons and lovers.

Prostitution is taboo even among "the Gentiles", but it's rampant. Even men in stable relationships and marriages take the occasional fling. It could be once every six months, or even once every two years, but it happens. It has, I think, something to with the saying about variety/spice/life. No point denying it happens, and all the moralising in the world isn't going to stop it. It has been going on since the time of the biblical Judah. When alcohol hits the brain, men will do things they don't normally do. The alternative is an affair, but affairs come with added complications, take time, some commitment, and money. Many men reason that by the time you spend all your money wining and dining a potential lover, you might as well go to a brothel and get it over and done with. The "girls" I knew all said that most of their customers were married men. One told me the story of a man coming to her for oral sex - because his wife was in hospital after having a baby, he couldn't risk an affair, and felt "sex-starved". This is very common, and probably includes the "one-off" situations I'm talking about.

One of my former "girls" (I'm not into this "scene" anymore, and haven't been for years), who still remains a very good friend and we have phone contact, though she now lives in Sydney with her boyfriend (she's working as an aged-care nurse now), told me that she was once visited by Mormon who tried to convert her. Apparently he was a regular customer over some months, though I was not able to establish who he is. This really got my curiosity going, but I couldn't determine who he was just by physical descriptions. It's likely that his intention was to wean her away from prostitution and eventually take her as his wife. She too is a very pretty woman, and now in her early 30s.

In my work as a cab driver I now see it all the time. I give lifts home to very "respectable" men in high positions, with families. I've seen their homes in wealthy suburbs, and their families. Problem is they can't hide anything from a cab driver, but we never break these confidences, because it would ruin their families. It's their business, and their lives. Often they initially feel a bit awkward when getting into the cab (with a "only you and I know about this, buddy" sort of look), but it's not my job to be a judge, just to get them home. Interfering in any way is the last thing on any cabbie's mind. We're there to make money, not act like Oprah Winfrey or the Pope.

One strange thing I'll say about brothel customers is that they seem to have an above-average tendency to turn violent. I'm not sure why that is, but I'll leave that to the psychological experts. Maybe it's just the ones not properly satisfied with the service. That's my rough guess.

Most younger men naturally still have the ability to attract many females, and thus they are not as frequent brothel-goers as older men, but even some of them will still have the occasional fling if they don't "pick up" on a given night. I'd say too, according to the article I linked, that young men may be becoming more frequent brothel visitors because relationships are too complicated, and many young women too demanding. As the article suggests:

It is difficult for a woman to understand what it is that a prostitute can offer these perfectly attractive men that a free sexual encounter — be it a one-night-stand or in a relationship — cannot. In an age when women are more sexually liberated and “strings-free” sex is a greater possibility than it ever was before, why are more and more young men choosing sex with a pro?

Disconcertingly, the men to whom I spoke suggested that lack of any emotional obligation is one of the most appealing attributes of paying for sex. “It’s just a case of getting something out of the way,” says Tom, who after his fifth (and, at the time of writing, final) encounter described how he felt “a very cold reaction, very emotionless — you’ve lost that pent-up aggression and you just want to get out of there.”

That last paragraph probably sums up why this phenomenon is unlikely to last in most men. In the end men realise there's more to life than unemotional sex. Once they get that physical urge and aggression out of the way - they may finally be ready for a proper relationship, if they can find the right woman.

Hope all this has been helpful in increasing your understanding. No doubt it will churn some people, but there's little point denying the realties of life.

And a little of each of the 350 beers or so for which they are famous.

Now that's a subject of far more interest to me these days :)

[_silentkid]

Munich was great. It is a nice town, though a bit expensive. Now, seriously thinking about moving down there in September, if I can find a place. I'm thinking of living outside the city, suburban train, 30 minutes from the university, rather than inside the city. (My boss already found something, maybe, near her home.)

I loved Munich when I visited it last January. It was my favorite place on my trip. Great beer. My friend and I found a few cool bars outside the touristy area of Marienplatz, in the University district. Munich would be a great place to live.

[_Moniker]

Hey, Ray, interesting post. I think there is probably violence involved when men stop looking at the women as actual humans and more as if they are merely a ride in an amusement park.

~edited out too much information~

[_Ray A]

Mon, your descriptions about fit what I know. I actually wiped the first paragraph of my post before hitting submit, because I felt on reflection it was too personal. The girls I knew all expressed contempt for the men who saw them, with some rare exceptions, usually for those who didn't see them only as sex objects. And it was a feeling that "I know you only want my body, and otherwise consider me a piece of Whore-S***". And many men don't understand this. That's why, as mentioned by gramps, most won't kiss. To most of them, kissing is something you reserve for emotional love, a thought that seems contradictory when you consider what they do, but many of them consider kissing a more intimate sign of emotional attachment, along with sex of course. I suppose that is difficult for most to understand, but I can see their reasons. Kissing can be just as good as sex if the right chemistry is there, and getting the right chemistry is a lottery.

[_Ray A]

Edit: To be consistent with your own editing, I've edited the last part.

[_gramps]

Thanks for the information. It's always good to know. I am, indeed, interested in the phenomenon. It is a thriving business.

I was just in Amsterdam three weeks ago. For 10 years running, I've seen the same woman behind a window, near the Old Church, in the red-light district. I've sat next to the church eating lunch or dinner to see her clientele. 90% are 50-65 year old, straight, business men, even banker types. Often a top hat. You get the idea.

She would be now....65-70 years old or so. A good 200 lbs. But, her window seems to be closed indefinitely. I guess sometime you've got to quit.

Hi gramps, always good to have a conversation with you. Check out this article for a start,

Who pays for sex? You'd be surprised

The stereotypical “John” who uses prostitutes is a middle-aged, empty soul whom you might spot slinking around red-light districts in an outsized mac and stained trousers. The uncomfortable truth, though, is that most men who pay for sex are just “regular guys” — colleagues, brothers, fathers, sons and lovers.

Prostitution is taboo even among "the Gentiles", but it's rampant. Even men in stable relationships and marriages take the occasional fling. It could be once every six months, or even once every two years, but it happens. It has, I think, something to with the saying about variety/spice/life. No point denying it happens, and all the moralising in the world isn't going to stop it. It has been going on since the time of the biblical Judah. When alcohol hits the brain, men will do things they don't normally do. The alternative is an affair, but affairs come with added complications, take time, some commitment, and money. Many men reason that by the time you spend all your money wining and dining a potential lover, you might as well go to a brothel and get it over and done with. The "girls" I knew all said that most of their customers were married men. One told me the story of a man coming to her for oral sex - because his wife was in hospital after having a baby, he couldn't risk an affair, and felt "sex-starved". This is very common, and probably includes the "one-off" situations I'm talking about.

One of my former "girls" (I'm not into this "scene" anymore, and haven't been for years), who still remains a very good friend and we have phone contact, though she now lives in Sydney with her boyfriend (she's working as an aged-care nurse now), told me that she was once visited by Mormon who tried to convert her. Apparently he was a regular customer over some months, though I was not able to establish who he is. This really got my curiosity going, but I couldn't determine who he was just by physical descriptions. It's likely that his intention was to wean her away from prostitution and eventually take her as his wife. She too is a very pretty woman, and now in her early 30s.

In my work as a cab driver I now see it all the time. I give lifts home to very "respectable" men in high positions, with families. I've seen their homes in wealthy suburbs, and their families. Problem is they can't hide anything from a cab driver, but we never break these confidences, because it would ruin their families. It's their business, and their lives. Often they initially feel a bit awkward when getting into the cab (with a "only you and I know about this, buddy" sort of look), but it's not my job to be a judge, just to get them home. Interfering in any way is the last thing on any cabbie's mind. We're there to make money, not act like Oprah Winfrey or the Pope.

One strange thing I'll say about brothel customers is that they seem to have an above-average tendency to turn violent. I'm not sure why that is, but I'll leave that to the psychological experts. Maybe it's just the ones not properly satisfied with the service. That's my rough guess.

Most younger men naturally still have the ability to attract many females, and thus they are not as frequent brothel-goers as older men, but even some of them will still have the occasional fling if they don't "pick up" on a given night. I'd say too, according to the article I linked, that young men may be becoming more frequent brothel visitors because relationships are too complicated, and many young women too demanding. As the article suggests:

It is difficult for a woman to understand what it is that a prostitute can offer these perfectly attractive men that a free sexual encounter — be it a one-night-stand or in a relationship — cannot. In an age when women are more sexually liberated and “strings-free” sex is a greater possibility than it ever was before, why are more and more young men choosing sex with a pro?

Disconcertingly, the men to whom I spoke suggested that lack of any emotional obligation is one of the most appealing attributes of paying for sex. “It’s just a case of getting something out of the way,” says Tom, who after his fifth (and, at the time of writing, final) encounter described how he felt “a very cold reaction, very emotionless — you’ve lost that pent-up aggression and you just want to get out of there.”

That last paragraph probably sums up why this phenomenon is unlikely to last in most men. In the end men realise there's more to life than unemotional sex. Once they get that physical urge and aggression out of the way - they may finally be ready for a proper relationship, if they can find the right woman.

Hope all this has been helpful in increasing your understanding. No doubt it will churn some people, but there's little point denying the realties of life.

And a little of each of the 350 beers or so for which they are famous.

Now that's a subject of far more interest to me these days :)

Hi Ray!

Thanks for the link. I was always amazed how the Japanese structured their society, and how the 'red light districts' were 'incorporated' into the cities. And Amsterdam, for me, is one of the all-time classic experiments in Western society. Far better than crossing over the train tracks to the west side in Salt Lake City.

How do Australian cities structure their 'playlands?'

In the dangerous, dirty parts of town? Hidden?

Munich seems pretty open. Just west of the city center, on a frontal road, you can find all the ladies parked in their cars with the doors open.

I'm just starting to figure out Dresden.

Interesting thought: I had a friend in Tokyo, american, married to a Japanese gal, two kids and he had a mistress. Another young Japanese gal. He thought that was much better than having a prostitute or a one-night fling. I could never understand that line of reasoning. The mistress brings a lot of baggage along, no?

Oh, about the violence: if you are a Murakami fan, his more recent small novel, After Midnight, deals with this violence against prostitutes. Nice stuff. And of course the Nick Cage movie, Leaving Las Vegas, covers the same.

[_gramps]

Munich was great. It is a nice town, though a bit expensive. Now, seriously thinking about moving down there in September, if I can find a place. I'm thinking of living outside the city, suburban train, 30 minutes from the university, rather than inside the city. (My boss already found something, maybe, near her home.)

I loved Munich when I visited it last January. It was my favorite place on my trip. Great beer. My friend and I found a few cool bars outside the touristy area of Marienplatz, in the University district. Munich would be a great place to live.

Hey bro! I've been amazed at how many people I have met recently from outside Munich, but who live there and say it is the best city in which they have ever lived . The old lady I met the other evening had lived everywhere. She was sold on Munich.

There is a lot of money there. Very different from Dresden. English and French spoken in most businesses.

I work right there in the University district. Right by the Arch. Schwabing, is the area. I would live there, but I don't make that much money. But, nice for work, anyway. I want to live a little outside, for the dog's sake.

Did you get to see the English Garden? It is just behind the University district. Really nice. Big. Fun beer gardens in the summer.

Edited to add: Just now listening to And the piano has been drinking...

[_Ray A]

Thanks for the link. I was always amazed how the Japanese structured their society, and how the 'red light districts' were 'incorporated' into the cities. And Amsterdam, for me, is one of the all-time classic experiments in Western society. Far better than crossing over the train tracks to the west side in Salt Lake City.

How do Australian cities structure their 'playlands?'

Hi gramps,

It's really "all over the place". Ideally local councils require them to operate in industrial areas, but several are right in the middle of town or even in residential areas. I regularly pick up an elderly couple who go to a club for dinner, and they live right next door to a brothel. I've never had the nerve to ask them how they "deal with it", but they seem nonchalant about it, as if it's just another neighbour.

To date, as far as I'm aware, only one or two brothels in my area are legal, that is, have council approval, but the council turns a blind eye to the others (maybe some of the councillors are regular customers?). The same applies for Sydney, where you can find brothels in suburban areas, though the most popular ones are located in the city, and mainly at Kings Cross, which goes 24/7/365. It's very popular with US navymen! Many women now work privately from their homes or flats shared with other girls, and this is very common with university students, particularly Asian university students who try to earn a buck to supplement their meagre student allowance. Plus they have the anonymity of being in a foreign country. Most of the brothels where I live are now Asian (who also vastly dominate Sydney), with only two hosting Australian girls. The Aussie girls mostly work privately.

Munich seems pretty open. Just west of the city center, on a frontal road, you can find all the ladies parked in their cars with the doors open.

There is limited street prostitution in my area, with only one area used, not legally, and from time to time the police arrest both the workers and their clients to "send a message", but after a few weeks it all goes back to normal. The general rule is not to solicit in a residential area, nor near a church. Street prostitution is policed more in Sydney, except in Kings Cross. Police are sometimes bribed, and will turn a blind eye, to both prostitution and drug dealing. I don't work this area as a cabbie, because there are too many criminals there. If I drop off, I immediately head out of the area, ignoring job calls or flag downs.

Interesting thought: I had a friend in Tokyo, american, married to a Japanese gal, two kids and he had a mistress. Another young Japanese gal. He thought that was much better than having a prostitute or a one-night fling. I could never understand that line of reasoning. The mistress brings a lot of baggage along, no?

I believe almost all of my male ancestors going back to the 18th-19th-early 20th century had mistresses. I know my grandfather did. A few children came from those unions, but they apparently thought it worthwhile, and somehow they managed to convince the mistresses without an angel with flaming sword over them :) I've lived a pretty dull, boring and mundane life in comparison to them.

Oh, about the violence: if you are a Murakami fan, his more recent small novel, After Midnight, deals with this violence against prostitutes. Nice stuff. And of course the Nick Cage movie, Leaving Las Vegas, covers the same.

Sounds interesting. There has been some violence, and fatalities in my area. I know of two girls who were murdered, and they were known to be very rough with customers, sometimes ripping them off. This is the real problem with street prostitution, the little protection they have. This way they don't have to give a portion to the brothel owner, but their life is at greater risk, and I think this is why there's a crackdown on it. There's also the opportunity for customers to do "deals", like no condoms, which they can't do in regulated brothels. That's madness in my opinion anyway.