Mormons don't really believe in revelation by the Spirit.

[_dblagent007]

Dude. If she needed a "revelation" in order to get her husband to pay for the procedure, more power to her. ;)

Actually, that's not it at all. I think my FIL would have paid for it either way.

I think (this is my opinion) she just wanted the family to be more accepting of her decision to have the procedure. In her mind, telling us that God wanted her to do it would make it more legitimate. I think she would have been better off just getting it done and telling us she liked having bigger equipment.

[_Sister Mary Lisa]

Assuming they, at the very least pray for guidance when they address the world or members as a prophet in an official capacity, obviously are (at times) misled or misunderstand or don't get the right message from the HG.

This is the problem apologists will not even acknowledge let alone address.

It's not necessarily a problem. God will not command in all things. Sometimes He will let the prophets try their best without telling them everything. It's like that D&C scripture about being commanded in all things leads to slothful servants. I don't want slothful prophets.

I sure wish the prophets would focus on bigger "revelation" then and not on the nit-picky things they do focus on like number of earrings and flip flops being worn, and facial hair and white shirts for men. I wish the prophets would bring out something vital to our salvation rather than the little things they seem to think are important. The closest thing we have to revelation is the Proclamation to the Family, and what a disappointing message it gives us that anyone not living a family life with a mother, father, and children together in the same home is somehow straying from the Only Way It Should Be. Sad, because there are so many diverse and beautiful families in the church who don't fit that exactly, and they are made to feel as if they've failed.

And it's true that "revelation" is purely speculative and not consistent. Whether or not one admits this to be problematic, it is. It opens up the possibility that there really ISN'T a god there, revealing truth to us all. Because the messages being revealed are not unchanging or unwavering or consistent.

[_Sister Mary Lisa]

Dude. If she needed a "revelation" in order to get her husband to pay for the procedure, more power to her. ;)

Actually, that's not it at all. I think my FIL would have paid for it either way.

I think (this is my opinion) she just wanted the family to be more accepting of her decision to have the procedure. In her mind, telling us that God wanted her to do it would make it more legitimate. I think she would have been better off just getting it done and telling us she liked having bigger equipment.

Yes. I find it very sad when ANY woman feels the need to proclaim male approval (from any source ~ husband, father, god) before she feels she can choose a thing for herself. Most women don't even realize this is what they do.

[_The Nehor]

Yes. I find it very sad when ANY woman feels the need to proclaim male approval (from any source ~ husband, father, god) before she feels she can choose a thing for herself. Most women don't even realize this is what they do.

Me too but when you're married I find it very sad when either member of the couple decides on a large financial expenditure without finding agreement between them first.

[_asbestosman]

The closest thing we have to revelation is the Proclamation to the Family, and what a disappointing message it gives us that anyone not living a family life with a mother, father, and children together in the same home is somehow straying from the Only Way It Should Be. Sad, because there are so many diverse and beautiful families in the church who don't fit that exactly, and they are made to feel as if they've failed.

Having a different family does not imply failure. Sometimes a parent dies and leaves behind widows. I don't see how the proclomation implied that such is straying from the gospel path, and if you do then I think that I frankly cannot help you to understand what a wonderful proclomation it was for our times. It is the ideal to strive for, not the measuring stick of worthiness. Worthiness depends on intent + actions within your ability to control. You cannot prevent all untimely death. You can control yourself so as not to have sex outside of wedlock or to do that which is unseemly with your own gender.

Because the messages being revealed are not unchanging or unwavering or consistent.

Some things change just as our circumstances change. Our challenges are somewhat different than those in the past, so the fact that revelation changes to help reflect that should be welcomed instead of rejected.

[_truth dancer]

Assuming they, at the very least pray for guidance when they address the world or members as a prophet in an official capacity, obviously are (at times) misled or misunderstand or don't get the right message from the HG.

This is the problem apologists will not even acknowledge let alone address.

It's not necessarily a problem. God will not command in all things. Sometimes He will let the prophets try their best without telling them everything. It's like that D&C scripture about being commanded in all things leads to slothful servants. I don't want slothful prophets.

Hi Asbestosman,

You miss the point again. :-)

The point is not that prophets make mistakes.

The point is that they do not know when they are receiving revelation/inspiration and when they are not.

I don't know how to make this point more clear.

If prophets cannot figure out what is or is not revelation/inspiration, then why does any other believer think they can?

Why are prophets teaching that they are inspired, in communion with Christ, that Christ is at the helm of the LDS church if they can't even figure out when they are or are not inspired?

If the HG idea is such a good one, the one to rely on for ones testimony of truth, the one that teaches God's will, why can't even the prophets discern when they are actually inspired or not?

And, why do members think they are receiving revelation/inspiration when indeed even the prophets don't get it right?

Does that help to explain the problem?

:-)



~td~

[_Sister Mary Lisa]

Yes. I find it very sad when ANY woman feels the need to proclaim male approval (from any source ~ husband, father, god) before she feels she can choose a thing for herself. Most women don't even realize this is what they do.

Me too but when you're married I find it very sad when either member of the couple decides on a large financial expenditure without finding agreement between them first.

That's just it. It shoulda been her decision made equally with her husband. She should NOT have felt compelled to justify her actions to everyone in the family as god-sanctioned. It's her body. Her life.

[_asbestosman]

why can't even the prophets discern when they are actually inspired or not?

I reject this claim.

[_asbestosman]

It's her body. Her life.

That's not what the Bible says:
1 Cor. 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

Still, I agree that she didn't have to justify it to her family.

[_truth dancer]

why can't even the prophets discern when they are actually inspired or not?

I reject this claim.

OK... let us start at the beginning. :-)

Have the prophets or apostles ever made a mistake? (Speaking in an official capacity as a leader of the church). Any examples you could share?

Do you think prophets and apostles pray for inspiration?

Do you think they believe they are inspired when they are speaking in an official capacity as prophets and leaders of the LDS church?

How would you suggest the FLDS, CoC, Scientologists, Buddhists, Sikh, Hindus etc. etc. etc. etc. discern between inspiration and their intuition/desires/personal wishes/etc?

How do you account for members of the church praying for inspiration yet receiving very different "truths"?

For example, Rodney Meldrum feeling he was inspired in his work, yet perhaps apologists also feel they are inspired? (I'm actually not sure about this... maybe this is something that needs addressing). ;-)

If apologists do not think they are inspired or if they are not praying about their work, and Rodney is, perhaps this is a significant point, no?

But that is another thread. (smile)

~td~