Sister Mary Lisa wrote:I'd love to hear your thoughts on the ideal afterlife for a woman who fully repents and does her best and earns her just reward...
Rulership over the Universe with unlimited power to shape it to her will. Supernal joy. A companion/mate to whom she is completely in love and loves here and who understand each other completely (i.e. no jealousy, insecurity as you will feel their love as you feel your own). Every dream/desire being fulfilled. The flowers blooming before your eyes to make you smile, the stars dancing to your will, and forever to enjoy it.
Sounds like a good deal to me.
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics "I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
Sister Mary Lisa wrote:Come on, seriously. What would your ideal afterlife consist of? Do you think your idea jives with the Mormon ideal afterlife women get to look forward to?
Sorry, but as a married man I know plenty well that my ideal =/= to my wife's ideal in all things. I think it quite possible that a woman in a non-ideal mortal situation will be with all of her family if she is faithful, and I base that idea on talks about wayward children.
That's General Leo. He could be my friend if he weren't my enemy. eritis sicut dii I support NCMO
Sister Mary Lisa wrote:I'd love to hear your thoughts on the ideal afterlife for a woman who fully repents and does her best and earns her just reward...
Rulership over the Universe with unlimited power to shape it to her will. Supernal joy. A companion/mate to whom she is completely in love and loves here and who understand each other completely (i.e. no jealousy, insecurity as you will feel their love as you feel your own). Every dream/desire being fulfilled. The flowers blooming before your eyes to make you smile, the stars dancing to your will, and forever to enjoy it.
Sounds like a good deal to me.
Did you just say unlimited power and rulership over the universe?? Now that made me laugh. I see evidence of Heavenly Mother(s)' power all over the place. I can barely wait to exist in the eternities just like she gets to now, with power untold and such a great family relationship with my children and sister wives and their children. Can't wait.
Sister Mary Lisa wrote:Come on, seriously. What would your ideal afterlife consist of? Do you think your idea jives with the Mormon ideal afterlife women get to look forward to?
Sorry, but as a married man I know plenty well that my ideal =/= to my wife's ideal in all things. I think it quite possible that a woman in a non-ideal mortal situation will be with all of her family if she is faithful, and I base that idea on talks about wayward children.
I'm not talking about wayward daughters. I'm asking straight up: what does the eternal celestial reward for women in LDS theology offer us as women? Really. I'm curious what you truly think about this, and you can put aside your admirable husband-who-adores-his-wife-and-wants-to-make-her-happy answers this time. I don't want to really hear the pat "it'll work itself out in the millenium" stuff, either. Half the population of the church is expected to embrace and strive for an eternal celestial reward that seems to leave much to be desired. Do YOU think the celestial fate of women is as rosy and perfect as The Nehor seems to think it will be for the sisters?
Sister Mary Lisa wrote:Did you just say unlimited power and rulership over the universe?? Now that made me laugh. I see evidence of Heavenly Mother(s)' power all over the place. I can barely wait to exist in the eternities just like she gets to now, with power untold and such a great family relationship with my children and sister wives and their children. Can't wait.
I did and I meant it.
Let me ask you this.....how could you tell whether it was Father, Mother, Christ, Holy Ghost, or angels that created something or did something? You can't. So how would you know what is evidence of her power? You have no idea.
I wouldn't get too excited about it. Based on your contempt of revelation I do not think you are on the track to cosmic galactic power.
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics "I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
I should add that I'm only giving part of the picture when I describe the afterlife. The real joy is being able to find God again and enjoy eternity together. If you don't want God heaven has little appeal. We try to envision it in art or by taking our concepts of happiness and living and just sticking God, some white robes, clouds, and beauty and call it heaven. The truth is we really have no idea what we're talking about.
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics "I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
Let me ask you this.....how could you tell whether it was Father, Mother, Christ, Holy Ghost, or angels that created something or did something? You can't. So how would you know what is evidence of her power? You have no idea.
I wouldn't get too excited about it. Based on your contempt of revelation I do not think you are on the track to cosmic galactic power.
The scriptures are quite clear that God created all things with the help of Jesus Christ. Nowhere is it taught that heavenly mother had any part of it. There is plenty of scriptural and prophetic evidence of God's power and omniscience and authority over all things. There is plenty of evidence of the proper priesthood order of things and young boys are certainly taught that the priesthood power they wield is the power that rules everything. And they know full well, as you do, and as I do, that the males preside over their entire families with said priesthood. So. Your speculations are based on your own fantasy, and not on how you were taught in church.
Let me ask you this.....how could you tell whether it was Father, Mother, Christ, Holy Ghost, or angels that created something or did something? You can't. So how would you know what is evidence of her power? You have no idea.
I wouldn't get too excited about it. Based on your contempt of revelation I do not think you are on the track to cosmic galactic power.
The scriptures are quite clear that God created all things with the help of Jesus Christ. Nowhere is it taught that heavenly mother had any part of it. There is plenty of scriptural and prophetic evidence of God's power and omniscience and authority over all things. There is plenty of evidence of the proper priesthood order of things and young boys are certainly taught that the priesthood power they wield is the power that rules everything. And they know full well, as you do, and as I do, that the males preside over their entire families with said priesthood. So. Your speculations are based on your own fantasy, and not on how you were taught in church.
Okay, who is God?
Is God a title, a person, or a group of persons then?
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics "I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
Godhood (and goddesshood) is the biggest carrot the religion dangles as a reward for following the plan they want and need you to follow unquestioningly. What humors me is how very heavily this reward system favors men. It's a real slap in the face to women who are expected to thrill at and aspire toward becoming a nameless, unmentioned afterthought in the mortal lives of her children. And I was supposed to want this with all my soul. And I'm ashamed now that I did, right up until that moment I really allowed myself to consider it beyond "it'll work itself out in the next life."
Sister Mary Lisa wrote:I'm not talking about wayward daughters. I'm asking straight up: what does the eternal celestial reward for women in LDS theology offer us as women? Really. I'm curious what you truly think about this, and you can put aside your admirable husband-who-adores-his-wife-and-wants-to-make-her-happy answers this time. I don't want to really hear the pat "it'll work itself out in the millenium" stuff, either. Half the population of the church is expected to embrace and strive for an eternal celestial reward that seems to leave much to be desired. Do YOU think the celestial fate of women is as rosy and perfect as The Nehor seems to think it will be for the sisters?
Don't despair Sister Mary. In Mormon cosmology, space and time do not exist for the righteous priesthood holder. Yes, he will have many wives, and you will be one of them (if you are faithful). However, absent space/time, your husband will simultaneously be able to fulfill the fantasies of each and every bride in his harem. You too will have romantic walks on the beach with your husband whenever you desire. There is nothing he cannot provide you. You will feel that all of his attention will be focused on you.