Sam Harris on Sarah Palin

The Off-Topic forum for anything non-LDS related, such as sports or politics. Rated PG through PG-13.
Post Reply
_Yoda

Re: Sam Harris on Sarah Palin

Post by _Yoda »

Trevor wrote:
Brackite wrote:in my opinion, Governor Sarah Palin is the right Lady, At the right time, to become the Nation's first Female U.S. Vice President.
I will be happy to proudly vote for Senator John McCain and Governor Sarah Palin.


Did you leave out the passage that discussed her actual qualifications for the position? All I saw was stuff about how she juggles career and family.


Since Brackite is a Republican, I'm assuming he agrees fundamentally with McCain's and Palin's policies. Therefore, even if the article he quoted didn't have anything specific regarding her qualifications, he feels she is qualified. Brackite was addressing what feminists were criticizing Palin for.

Here are some words from Newt Gingrich, former Speaker of the House, regarding Palin's qualifications:
Newt wrote:It's stronger than Barack Obama's. I don't know why you guys walk around saying this baloney. She has a stronger resume than Obama. She's been a real mayor, he hasn't. She has been a real governor, he hasn't. She's been in charge of the Alaskan National Guard, he hasn't. She was a whistleblower who defeated an incumbent mayor. He has never once shown that kind of courage. She's a whistleblower who turned in the chairman of her own party and got him fined $12,000. I've never seen Obama do one thing like that. She took on the incumbent governor of her own party and beat him, and then she beat a former Democratic governor in the general election. I don't know of a single thing Obama's done except talk and write.


That full article is found here:

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-shepp ... ifications
_LifeOnaPlate
_Emeritus
Posts: 2799
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2007 4:50 pm

Re: Sam Harris on Sarah Palin

Post by _LifeOnaPlate »

The Dude wrote:
Well, my main problem with Hillary was that she wouldn't be able to unite the country because she has a long dirty history and so many personal enemies. I think Obama has a better shot at being a unifier, but maybe not, listening to you and your conservative talk show bias. Some people will never be happy with a Democrat. Oh well.


Amen.

McCain could be good at unifying if he reverts to his old self after the election. The Republicans certainly could have picked someone worse, I'll give you that. I wish you could say something nice about the Democrats. Even Biden could admit that Obama is so clean that he's like a dream. ;)


Amen.

Alter Idem wrote:They don't know about Biden's gaffes because they aren't reported by the media Obama supporters listen to, so they are blissfully unaware of the mistakes he's already racking up.


Keep it in perspective. Bush's countless gaffes aren't what makes him the worst president in US history. If Biden asks a famous Senator in a wheelchair to stand up and recieve applause, it's just a little "oopsie" really. It's not something that should make us say oh my G_d, this man is going to destroy our country.


Amen again. As for being reported in the "media Obama supporters listen to" I expect more clarity and reason from you, alter. You know better than to make such assertions. I watch Fox News almost every single night, and I watch CNN almost every single night. I'm pretty aware of Biden's various gaffes, I especially enjoyed Shawn Hannity's rant about them last night as he held a stack of papers in the air and declared Biden the greatest idiot in the universe. Hannity is a complete tool. Trying to equate Biden's mistakes to Sarah Palin's general cluelessness is completely weak. And then it gets shifted over to Obama once anyone points out Palin's obvious lack of ability. "Well, if you think Palin is not qualified, take a look at Obama!" If that is your argument in behalf of Palin it is a very, very sad argument indeed. And in regards to Obama, he clearly understands issues that Palin doesn't even know exist yet.

The Dude and Sethbag; You think Biden was a great choice...well if you listened to conservative talk shows you wouldn't.


You are right. All it takes is listening to the wrong commentator and suddenly I've changed my mind on a dime. Yeah, Sethbag and I are totally incapable of arriving at a conclusion that differs from what a particular talk show tells us.


I listen to conservative talk shows. I find they distort the truth even more often than left-leaning sources in general.

The debates are coming up and the media will have to cover them--gaffes and missteps--on both sides.


I suggest you don't let the little gaffes and missteps -- on either side -- keep you awake at night. They can be worth a partisan chuckle but not much more.


Good grief, and I agree with you, my man.
One moment in annihilation's waste,
one moment, of the well of life to taste-
The stars are setting and the caravan
starts for the dawn of nothing; Oh, make haste!

-Omar Khayaam

*Be on the lookout for the forthcoming album from Jiminy Finn and the Moneydiggers.*
_dartagnan
_Emeritus
Posts: 2750
Joined: Sun Dec 31, 2006 4:27 pm

Re: Sam Harris on Sarah Palin

Post by _dartagnan »

Sethbag,
Oh yeah, and Kevin, yeah, Palin's religiosity is part of it. ... Ahmedinejad thinks he's doing Allah's will too.


Of course it is, for you. But you have absolutely no evidence that she would use her religion to make/change policy.

CK,
Indeed. Before anyone lets her off too easily, they should consider the words of John Fea..."How does she know that troops going to Alaska are on a "task that is from God?" This kind of providentialism--and I write as a Christian here-- IS a problem."

Not you too Chris. You see people, this is precisely what I am talking about. The atheists are obsessed with Palin's theism that they can't think straight, and they have added embarrassment to America. I corrected this deceptive piece of liberal media horse crap a couple of week ago, but don't expect the know it all libs here to dare check out the facts. Here is a repeat, and this is precisely why so many people hate Palin. They stick to liberal media that cuts out the details so they can create whole cloth "facts" for political purposes:
Millions of TV viewers who watched ABC News’ interview with Sarah Palin Thursday night never saw her take issue with a key question in which she was asked if she believes that the U.S. military effort in Iraq is “a task that is from God.”

The exchange between Palin and ABC’s Charlie Gibson, in which she questioned the accuracy of the quote attributed to her, was edited out of the television broadcast but included in official, unedited transcripts posted on ABC’s Web site, as well as in video posted on the Internet.

But in the version shown on television, a video clip of her original statement was inserted in place of her objection, giving a different impression of how Palin views the Iraq war.

In the interview, Gibson asked Palin: “You said recently in your old church, ‘Our national leaders are sending U.S. soldiers on a task that is from God.’ Are we fighting a Holy War?”

Palin’s response, which appears in the transcript but was edited out of the televised version, was:

“You know, I don’t know if that was my exact quote.”

“It’s exact words,” Gibson said.

But Gibson’s quote left out what Palin said before that:

“Pray for our military men and women who are striving to do what is right. Also for this country, that our leaders, our national leaders are sending them out on a task that is from God. That’s what we have to make sure that we’re praying for, that there is a plan and that that plan is God’s plan.”

The edited televised version included a partial clip of that quote, but not the whole thing.

Gibson’s characterization of Palin’s words prompted a sharp rebuke from the McCain campaign on Thursday.

“Governor Palin’s full statement was VERY different from the way Gibson characterized it,” read a statement circulated by McCain spokesman Tucker Bounds.

“Gibson cut the quote — where she was clearly asking for the church TO PRAY THAT IT IS a task from God, not asserting that it is a task from God.

“Palin’s statement is an incredibly humble statement, a statement that this campaign stands by 100 percent, and a sentiment that any religious American will share,” Bounds wrote.

In the rest of the segment that aired, Palin told Gibson that she was referencing Abraham’s Lincoln’s words on how one should never presume to know God’s will. She said she does not presume to know God’s will and that she was only asking the audience to “pray that we are on God’s side.”

A promo posted on Yahoo! News Friday continued to misrepresent the exchange. It displays Palin’s image next to the words, “Iraq war a ‘holy war?’” implying that Palin — not Gibson — had called the War on Terror a holy war.

ABC News did not respond to requests for comment from FOXNews.com.

ABC’s mischaracterization of Palin’s words was not the only one in the media. The Washington Post also did some last-minute clean-up in one of its articles on Palin — a front-page story Friday with the headline “Palin Links Iraq to Sept. 11 in Talk to Troops in Alaska.”

As pointed out by The Weekly Standard’s Bill Kristol, the original version posted online used harsher language than the one that hit Beltway newsstands early Friday morning.

The original passage, written by staff writer Anne E. Kornblut, read:

“Gov. Sarah Palin linked the war in Iraq with the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, telling an Iraq-bound brigade of soldiers that included her son that they would ‘defend the innocent from the enemies who planned and carried out and rejoiced in the death of thousands of Americans.’

“The idea that the Iraqi government under Saddam Hussein helped Al Qaeda plan the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, a view once promoted by Bush administration officials, has since been rejected even by the president himself. On any other day, Palin’s statement would almost certainly have drawn a sharp rebuke from Democrats, but both parties had declared a halt to partisan activities to mark Thursday’s anniversary.”

But in the print version, and the version now appearing on the newspaper’s Web site, the article softened its claim a bit by swapping in the last line with this: “But it is widely agreed that militants allied with Al Qaeda have taken root in Iraq since the U.S.-led invasion.”
“All knowledge of reality starts from experience and ends in it...Propositions arrived at by purely logical means are completely empty as regards reality." - Albert Einstein
_The Dude
_Emeritus
Posts: 2976
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 3:16 am

Re: Sam Harris on Sarah Palin

Post by _The Dude »

dartagnan wrote:Sethbag,
Oh yeah, and Kevin, yeah, Palin's religiosity is part of it. ... Ahmedinejad thinks he's doing Allah's will too.


Of course it is, for you. But you have absolutely no evidence that she would use her religion to make/change policy.


I might be more convinced if you said her believer's motivation is not objectively better than a non-believer's motivation. ;)

We know that she's an unblinking believer, who thinks force of will is enough to get our country's job done. That attitude is a little redundant with McCain's survivor spirit, but on top this we have her invoking God in statements about the direction of war and policy. For some people this is evidence enought that she may well use her religious beliefs to make/change policy.

Anyway, I'm thinking she doesn't really matter to McCain at this point where the convention effect has worn off. It would be cool to see her debate Biden, but maybe that will never happen now that McCain is suspending his campaign.
"And yet another little spot is smoothed out of the echo chamber wall..." Bond
_Trevor
_Emeritus
Posts: 7213
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2007 6:28 pm

Re: Sam Harris on Sarah Palin

Post by _Trevor »

dartagnan wrote:Not you too Chris. You see people, this is precisely what I am talking about. The atheists are obsessed with Palin's theism that they can't think straight, and they have added embarrassment to America.


It seems to me that the concern is more than one of whether she believes in God, but of what kind of God she believes in and what kinds of doctrines she subscribes to. I for one am not that excited about candidates who take the Bible to be the inerrant word of God, who imagine a "Left Behind" end-of-the-world scenario is how it will really be, and who listen to pastors that describe evolution as the notion that we descended from "chimpanzees."

In other words, I think it entirely reasonable to take pause before voting for someone whose capacity for sound reasoning could be quite questionable--just as you think that Obama's membership in a Black Liberation Theology church should give the rest of us pause.

The question is: does Palin believe that kind of stuff? It is a legitimate question. I don't know that she does believe that stuff, but, like Obama, she associates with people who do, hangs out where things like that are preached from the pulpit, and has given some indication that beliefs in that constellation will influence her decisions.

This isn't simply atheist hysteria. I should hope that thoughtful deists and theists would also be concerned that the person they are voting for not subscribe to a cartoonish caricature of faith.
“I was hooked from the start,” Snoop Dogg said. “We talked about the purpose of life, played Mousetrap, and ate brownies. The kids thought it was off the hook, for real.”
_GoodK

Re: Sam Harris on Sarah Palin

Post by _GoodK »

It seems like the Palin-hating religion obsessed atheists are at it again. Apparently Sarah Palin, who could quite possibly be the first female president of the United States, thought it was wise to obtain a blessing that would keep her safe from withcraft. Leave it to the atheists to turn this into something negative.

Clearly atheists are focusing on the insanity of her religious beliefs, and not her qualifications.

It was appaling to witness - with some crafty editing and the work of token atheist, Katie Couric - that CBS has made Palin look like she doesn't know anything about her running mate's political career.

You atheists disgust me.
_antishock8
_Emeritus
Posts: 2425
Joined: Sun Jan 27, 2008 2:02 am

Re: Sam Harris on Sarah Palin

Post by _antishock8 »

I'm an atheist who isn't threatened by Governor Palin's religiosity. I think she is pretty balanced out on that issue.
You can’t trust adults to tell you the truth.

Scream the lie, whisper the retraction.- The Left
_MsJack
_Emeritus
Posts: 4375
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2008 5:06 am

Re: Sam Harris on Sarah Palin

Post by _MsJack »

I'm just going to refer everyone to Ace of Spade's observation on the witchcraft prayer thing. Likewise I've occasionally had fellow evangelicals say stuff over me in prayer that made me cringe. You've got two options: go with it respectfully or interrupt them like a jackass. I've always gone with choice A.

by the way, I agree that Palin did a poor job on the Couric interview. She's not the first politician to give a lame interview though and she won't be the last. For better or for worse, I hope she keeps doing them. If she can't handle the heat of tough questions from the media then she isn't very well suited for the job after all.
"It seems to me that these women were the head (κεφάλαιον) of the church which was at Philippi." ~ John Chrysostom, Homilies on Philippians 13

My Blogs: Weighted Glory | Worlds Without End: A Mormon Studies Roundtable | Twitter
_gramps
_Emeritus
Posts: 2485
Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2006 3:43 pm

Re: Sam Harris on Sarah Palin

Post by _gramps »

Could someone please help Sister Sarah pronounce any word with an '-ing' on the end?

She sounds like a hick. But, I sensed in her latest interviews she is working on correcting that, to her credit.

Maybe we could all pray for her?
I detest my loose style and my libertine sentiments. I thank God, who has removed from my eyes the veil...
Adrian Beverland
_dartagnan
_Emeritus
Posts: 2750
Joined: Sun Dec 31, 2006 4:27 pm

Re: Sam Harris on Sarah Palin

Post by _dartagnan »

Trying to equate Biden's mistakes to Sarah Palin's general cluelessness is completely weak.

You're right, because Biden demonstrates total stupidity at worst, or at best, that he is completely out of touch with what his own Presidential candidate supports. Either way it is a scary recipe for disaster. At least Palin/McCain know what their own positions are. There is no comparison because Palin's "mistakes" have for the most part been fabricated from whole cloth by the liberal media. Do you really want to make a list and compare the so-called "mistakes" by Palin and the outright stupidity and dishonesty of Joe Biden? Seriously, I'll make one if you're interested. I get a kick at how the media downplays Biden's remarks proving his inability to even get on the same page as Obama, by calling them "gaffes" as if they were just minor slips. Remember, Biden said earlier this year that Obama isn't ready to lead.

When Obama campaigns on supporting clean coal and Biden speaks quite vehemently against the idea, it becomes perfectly clear he doesn't even know whgat Obama's positions really are. Yet when Palin is interviewed by Katie Couric she is asked on the spot for a list of specific accomplishments by McCain that pertains to his efforts on the economy. One whammy of an example wasn't good enough for her. You simply don't see the media asking Biden to answer for his foul ups.
And then it gets shifted over to Obama once anyone points out Palin's obvious lack of ability. "Well, if you think Palin is not qualified, take a look at Obama!"

This again proves the liberal bias. Why is Palin's experience downplayed and dismissed when she is only the VP pick, yet Obama's complete inexperience doesn't even seem to concern them, when he is the Presidential pick? It boggles the mind, to say nothing of the fact that liberals seem completely incapable of reasoning on the matter and even admitting Obama has less experience than Palin. What exactly has Obama done that makes him qualified for the Presidency?

While you guys rail on Palin for the "bridge to nowhere" and make much of the fact that it was a stupid project not worth the taxpayers money, nobody seems to be hip to the fact that Obama and Biden both voted for it twice, even after it was suggested the money would have been better spent on rebuilding Lousiana after Hurricane Katrina.

Obama/Biden, ready to lead or ready to be hypocrites?
If that is your argument in behalf of Palin it is a very, very sad argument indeed. And in regards to Obama, he clearly understands issues that Palin doesn't even know exist yet.

Like what? You guys seem to think that by lowering Palin with rhetoric, you're somehow exalting Obama on the pedestal of "experience." All Obama does is talk and says whatever his speech writers tell him to say. He has no record demonstrating a capacity to handle anything that really matters. His only executive claim to fame is that he "manages his campaign" which is just another "gaffe" since his hired campaign manager does that. Even worse, the latest "Obamazebo" proves Obama is not ready to manage even minimal financial endeavors without screwing the pooch. In 2001 as an Illionois State Senator, Obama,
A $100,000 state grant for a botanic garden in Englewood that then-state Sen. Barack Obama awarded in 2001 to a group headed by a onetime campaign volunteer is now under investigation by the Illinois attorney general amid new questions, prompted by Chicago Sun-Times reports, about whether the money might have been misspent.

The garden was never built. And now state records obtained by the Sun-Times show $65,000 of the grant money went to the wife of Kenny B. Smith, the Obama 2000 congressional campaign volunteer who heads the Chicago Better Housing Association, which was in charge of the project for the blighted South Side neighborhood.

Smith wrote another $20,000 in grant-related checks to K.D. Contractors, a construction company that his wife, Karen D. Smith, created five months after work on the garden was supposed to have begun, records show. K.D. is no longer in business...

Paraphrasing what I wrote earlier this month and back in July, this sad saga is no trifling matter, but rather goes directly to the Illinois Senator's fitness to be president:

In July, Obama claimed that the state governor's staff should have been monitoring the grant. This shows that he felt no sense of responsibility for the results of money directed to someone HE chose, and despite a previous promise to "work tirelessly" to ensure that the project came to fruition. This isn't "the buck stops here" of Harry Truman fame; this is "the buck went somewhere else."

Gubernatorial staffs aren't responsible for monitoring projects like this. The blame-shifting to other pols is either hopelessly naïve (a legitimate possibility, given the Obama's seemingly endless well of ignorance) or irresponsible.

If you look at the full text of the press release that announced the project in 2000, you'll see that Smith was on hand, that he made representations about how he was "work(ing) with a variety of governmental agencies and not-for-profit groups to secure funding this project," and that he had "made some progress." My bet: Smith had, at most, met with a few organizations once or twice, and was blowing smoke about his realistic chances of getting money. For a nominal $550 in campaign contributions and some volunteer hours, Smith got 100 grand, which "somehow" mostly made its way to him and his wife, with no real accountability thus far. Face it: Obama got hustled. I doubt that he even looked into how the rest of the "fund-raising" was going before directing the release of the grant funds.

Perhaps that's why Obama seems oddly indifferent to what ultimately happened. The response from his spokesman (and not the candidate) is tired boilerplate about "provid(ing) residents with a livable neighborhood." Zzzzzz.

The larger point is this: The guy is hopelessly gullible, can't even get a $100,000 grant right, and now wants to have the final say in matters relating to a $3-plus trillion federal budget and a $14-trillion economy in a town chock full of con artists and tricksters. http://newsbusters.org/blogs/tom-blumer ... -takes-not

This just goes to support everything I've said about him.

This guy is probably going to become our next President, and his history is riddled with examples of poor management. And where is the media on this? They're sending an army of investigators to Wasilla to find out if Palin's management credentials are up to snuff.

Obama hires other people to clean up his dirty work so when the crap hits the fan, he can rely on plausible deniability. Anything that requires real managment, he hires someone else for the job. Like his advisors who need to convene with him behind closed doors for a few days befor he can go to the public with another "lecture" on whatever crisis there is in the world. He isn't a man who has a history of making important decisions, especially those kinds of decisions that need to be made quickly. And more importantly, he never argues goes against his own party. He is a strict partisan on the issues, yet you people really think he is going to lower taxes?? LOL. He's voted on taxes 94 times, and in every instance, it was to raise them.

He is the quintessential Washingtonesque politician who knows the game of back scratching and scandal. There is nothing special or unique about the man, aside from his skin color. And there is certainly no reason to believe he is capoable of leading this country.
I listen to conservative talk shows. I find they distort the truth even more often than left-leaning sources in general.

Then you are blinded by your own bias. This is not a moot point. The media is admittedly liberal. Why insult everyon'e intelligence by pretending it isn't? FOX News isn't the greatest because it has that moron Hannity on there, but even his presence is tempered with many other evenhanded treatments of the political picture. Obama and Hillary both were on O'Reilley and they loved it. Hillary Clinton even said she was treated more fair by Fox then any other news venue!!

At least they present someone from each party to debate an issue. Over at the other networks, you get three or four democrat "strategists" along with the liberal host, going off on these long rants laughing amongst themselves and patting each other on the backs while bashing Palin for stupid things that have already been shown not to be true. For example, the other day among four speakers, one woman brought Palin's supposed ignorance of the "Bush doctrine" but nobody thought the "Bush Doctrine" was an important topic when Presidential candidate Barack Obama didn't know what their version of it was either, and come to think of itl, neither did Charles Gibson!

Then McCain cancels his appearance on David Letterman to address the crisis in Washington (you guys call it a "political stunt" but the fact is he was urged to attend the sessions as even Bill Clinton recently admitted - funny how nobody wanted Obama show up) so what does Letterman do in retailiation?

He puts Keith Obermann on and teh two go off on McCain for 20 minutes straight. The web is replete with examples of mdeia bias that tries to reshape the landscape of this election by influencing the gullible. That is the brunt of democrat voters. People who are not informed. Even people like Chris Smith, who had established himself well as an intelligent critical thinker, abandons all of these tools when it comes to investigating the truth in the liberal spin machine. He and Sethbag still believe Palin said God was on our side in Iraq. Why? Because thatis how Charles Gibson twisted her comments.
This isn't simply atheist hysteria. I should hope that thoughtful deists and theists would also be concerned that the person they are voting for not subscribe to a cartoonish caricature of faith.

Yes it is, and this is proved by the fact that they keep propagating lies about her beliefs left after right, and after they are categorically shot down, they keep reinventing her religion because their need to feel threatened by a theist is more important than the truth. This is hysteria at its finest, and we cannot compare Obama's 20 years as an adult at a radical left Black Liberation Church with Plain's childhood Church she eventually left. Palin said she respects evolution. She doesn't believe Dinosours are 4000 years old. She never once asked for a book to be burned.
Last edited by Guest on Fri Sep 26, 2008 4:08 pm, edited 3 times in total.
“All knowledge of reality starts from experience and ends in it...Propositions arrived at by purely logical means are completely empty as regards reality." - Albert Einstein
Post Reply