Sam Harris on Sarah Palin

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_dartagnan
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Re: Sam Harris on Sarah Palin

Post by _dartagnan »

The demise of Bear Sterns, Merrill Lynch, Washington Mutual and Lehman Brothers is entirely relevant because it was hit especially hard by defaults on subprime and adjustable rate mortages. This is all connected. If the companies going bankrupt had no connection to the housing market, then a case could be made that it is just due to Bush's failed "economic policies." Yet, we don't see unrelated companies like Walmart, McDonalds and Verizon going bankrupt.

The evidence makes it clear that the common denominator amongst all of these compaines, is the fate they all shared due to the subprime mortage crisis.
I can’t tell if what you are interested in is the actual financial crisis, or just the Fannie Mae piece of it.

Clearly it is all intertwined.
In other words, are you interested in understanding why the entire financial system fell apart, or are you just interested in finding a way to blame the democrats for the failure of Federal National Mortgage Association?

Well, I am definately interested in the elephant you seem to be disinterested in. The fact is, without the skyrocketing number of unqualified borrowers, there wouldn't be a skyrocketing number of defaulted mortages. The latter is what directly led to the bankruptcy of several corporations.

This is what I tried telling you and others from the beginning. The democrat effort to extend risky loans to unqualified buyers (argued on racial lines!) which began in the 90's, cannot be dismissed as a symptom when it is in fact a cause. Anyone who says otherwise has it all backwards.

I don't see what is so inappropriate in pointing out Democrat complicity in the construction of a system that was already doomed to fail, especially when we are in an election year and the country is facing its worst financial crisis in decades. If people are serious about answers to the most popular question today, "How did this happen?" then they will consider the facts laid out in related news articles illustrating how the democrats have been staunch proponents of forcing banks to give money to people who had no ability or maybe even intention, of paying back.

Your #5 is distorted from the truth. You said,

"5- Materialistic home buyers who bought more home than they could afford."

Materialistic homebuyers?

What makes them "materialistic?" You make it sound like these were mainly rich people who were buying up properties as investments. What exactly did you mean by this? The problem, as corroborated by virtually all educated sources on the subject, was market flooded with poorer, unqualified buyers. The redlining had been fought against by one democrat politician after another. This was Barack Obama's specialty as an attorney. This is the man who is likely to become President. How sad.
Last edited by Guest on Fri Sep 26, 2008 3:17 pm, edited 3 times in total.
“All knowledge of reality starts from experience and ends in it...Propositions arrived at by purely logical means are completely empty as regards reality." - Albert Einstein
_dartagnan
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Re: Sam Harris on Sarah Palin

Post by _dartagnan »

The rest wear their bias on their sleeves. The difference is FOX's theme is "fair and balance" so it has more invested in the credulity (or sense of humor) of it's viewers


These quips, in the spirit of John Stewart, aren't really arguments. I can't even imagine how someone could deny the fact that the liberal media is more biased than FOX could ever hope to be.

Again, deal with the facts. Hillary Clinton said FOX was more fair than ABC, CNN or CBS. Democrat candidates are interviewed on FOX and treated fairly and nobody complains. Republican candidates are dragged onto these liberal shows as a ratings stunt. It is as if the camera man had pasted a virtual bulls eye on their foreheads. Charles Gibson was horrendous, but I'm sure he provided plenty of fodder for the dope headed fans of the Daily Show. These guys were bending over backwards to extract some kind of comment from Palin they could use for their next op ed. But when she didn't provide, they made them up. Oh yeah, they also edited out portions of her interview that made Gibson look like the idiot that he is.
“All knowledge of reality starts from experience and ends in it...Propositions arrived at by purely logical means are completely empty as regards reality." - Albert Einstein
_TAK
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Re: Sam Harris on Sarah Palin

Post by _TAK »

dartagnanThe demise of Bear Sterns, Merrill Lynch, Washington Mutual and Lehman Brothers is entirely relevant because it was hit especially hard by defaults on subprime and adjustable rate mortages.


Its not just mortgages ..

The NEW YORK SUN

Section: Business > Printer-Friendly Version
Ex-SEC Official Blames Agency for Blow-Up of Broker-Dealers
'They constructed a mechanism that simply didn't work'

By JULIE SATOW, Staff Reporter of the Sun | September 18, 2008
http://www.nysun.com/business/ex-sec-of ... -up/86130/
THE SECURITIES AND EXCHANGE COMMISSION CAN BLAME ITSELF FOR THE CURRENT CRISIS.

That is the allegation being made by a former SEC official, Lee Pickard, who says a rule change in 2004 led to the failure of Lehman Brothers, Bear Stearns, and Merrill Lynch.
The SEC allowed five firms — the three that have collapsed plus Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley — to more than double the leverage they were allowed to keep on their balance sheets and remove discounts that had been applied to the assets they had been required to keep to protect them from defaults.

Making matters worse, according to Mr. Pickard, who helped write the original rule in 1975 as director of the SEC's trading and markets division, is a move by the SEC this month to further erode the restraints on surviving broker-dealers by withdrawing requirements that they maintain a certain level of rating from the ratings agencies. "They constructed a mechanism that simply didn't work," Mr. Pickard said. "The proof is in the pudding — three of the five broker-dealers have blown up." The so-called net capital rule was created in 1975 to allow the SEC to oversee broker-dealers, or companies that trade securities for customers as well as their own accounts. It requires that firms value all of their tradable assets at market prices, and then it applies a haircut, or a discount, to
account for the assets' market risk. So equities, for example, have a haircut of 15%, while a 30-year Treasury bill, because it is less risky, has a 6% haircut. The net capital rule also requires that broker dealers limit their debt-to-net capital ratio to 12-to-1, although they must issue an early warning if they begin approaching this limit, and are forced to stop trading if they exceed it, so broker dealers often keep their debt-to-net capital ratios much lower. In 2004, the European Union passed a rule allowing the SEC's European counterpart to manage the risk both of broker dealers and their investment banking holding companies. In response, the SEC instituted a similar, voluntary program for broker dealers with capital of at least $5 billion, enabling the agency to oversee both the broker dealers and the holding companies. This alternative approach, which all five broker-dealers that qualified — Bear Stearns, Lehman Brothers, Merrill Lynch, Goldman Sachs, and Morgan Stanley — voluntarily joined, altered the way the SEC measured their capital. Using computerized models, the SEC, under its new Consolidated Supervised Entities program, allowed the broker dealers to increase their debt-to-net-capital ratios, sometimes, as in the case of Merrill Lynch, to as high as 40-to-1. It also removed the method for applying haircuts, relying instead on another math-based model for calculating risk that led to a much smaller discount. The SEC justified the less stringent capital requirements by arguing it was now able to manage the consolidated entity of the broker dealer and the holding company, which would ensure it could better manage the risk.

"The Commission's 2004 rules strengthened oversight of the securities markets, because prior to their adoption there was no formal regulatory oversight, no liquidity requirements, and no capital requirements for investment bank holding companies," a spokesman for the agency, John Heine, said. In addition to computerizing the risk calculations, the new program required time-consuming oversight of the broker dealers by SEC officials, and in many cases, the use of subjective judgment calls. "An important component of the CSE program is the regular interaction of Commission staff with senior managers in the firm's own control functions, including risk management, treasury, financial controllers, and the internal auditor, as well as onsite testing to determine whether the firms are implementing robustly their documented controls," SEC chairman Christopher Cox testified in a hearing of the House Committee on Financial Services in July. Despite the increased oversight and supposed strengthening of the rule, the SEC did reexamine its efficacy after the Bear Stearns collapse. "Immediately after the events of mid-March, when the runon-the-bank phenomenon to which Bear Stearns was exposed demonstrated the importance of incorporating loss of short-term secured funding into regulatory stress scenarios, the CSE program revised the analysis of liquidity risk management, with enhanced focus on the use and resilience of secured funding," Mr. Cox testified at the July hearing. "The SEC has also worked closely with the Federal Reserve in directing this additional stress testing." Two months after Mr. Cox testified, however, two more broker dealers have collapsed, and yesterday there were reports that one of the two remaining broker dealers — Morgan Stanley — is now in talks to merge with Wachovia. "The SEC modification in 2004 is the primary reason for all of the losses that have occurred," Mr. Pickard, who is now a senior partner at the Washington, D.C.-based law firm Pickard & Djinis, said. The director of equity research at Fusion IQ and an influential Web logger, Barry Ritholtz, called the 2004 rule change "a hornets nest" that "proves the importance of having stringent rules in place." The SEC said it has no plans to re-examine the impact of the 2004 changes to the net capital rule, and last week, it put out a proposal to revise the rule once again. This time, it is looking to remove the requirement that broker dealers maintain a certain rating from the ratings agencies. "The SEC doesn't want to appear they are endorsing the efficacy of ratings agencies, but once again, they are going to simply cause more problems down the road," Mr. Pickard said.
God has the right to create and to destroy, to make like and to kill. He can delegate this authority if he wishes to. I know that can be scary. Deal with it.
Nehor.. Nov 08, 2010


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_dartagnan
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Re: Sam Harris on Sarah Palin

Post by _dartagnan »

The explosion of defaulted mortgages was the poison that was allowed to fester as the credit to these firms was continuous extended recklessly. The problem was mismanaged to be sure, but it all started with the explosion of defaulted mortages. It was all downhill from there. Attitudes like Barney Frank's is what made it worse:
"These two entities—Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac—are not facing any kind of financial crisis," said Representative Barney Frank of Massachusetts, the ranking Democrat on the Financial Services Committee. "The more people exaggerate these problems, the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing."
“All knowledge of reality starts from experience and ends in it...Propositions arrived at by purely logical means are completely empty as regards reality." - Albert Einstein
_Some Schmo
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Re: Sam Harris on Sarah Palin

Post by _Some Schmo »

Wow... I actually have to look at the screen name and avatar to distinguish between posts made by droopy and dart these days.

Nothing quite like a little Right Wing Rabies on the old message boards...
God belief is for people who don't want to live life on the universe's terms.
_dartagnan
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Re: Sam Harris on Sarah Palin

Post by _dartagnan »

Well, there's no mistaking your posts. The quality is pretty much what one would expect with its corresponding avatar.
“All knowledge of reality starts from experience and ends in it...Propositions arrived at by purely logical means are completely empty as regards reality." - Albert Einstein
_Some Schmo
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Re: Sam Harris on Sarah Palin

Post by _Some Schmo »

dartagnan wrote:Well, there's no mistaking your posts. The quality is pretty much what one would expect with its corresponding avatar.

LOL

Same with yours, unfortunately.
God belief is for people who don't want to live life on the universe's terms.
_antishock8
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Re: Sam Harris on Sarah Palin

Post by _antishock8 »

Jesus. Even Bill Clinton admitted that he and the Democrats were primarily to blame for this mess.

Anecdote time:

I had some young 20-something friends that lived in the DC area, and made a combined income of about 83k. A few years ago they sold their house the bought for 163k for 225k, paid off some debts, and secured a loan on a 4,000 sq ft house in Silver Springs for 455k. The loan was an 80/20 interest only with the monthly mortgage bill, within the first 5 years clocking in at $2,500/mo. This is on an income of 83k. After 5 years the interest rates would go variable and they could have been paying upward of 4-5k/mo. You do the math. After taxes their income was already strained, but after a variable rate adjustment they were screwed.

But... The BIG PLAN...

They were going to flip the house, like everyone was doing, and sell it for 650k, because that's what everyone thought they could do. MEANWHILE, he takes another job and moves to Virginia. He can't sell the house, so they BUY a condo and YES... They were granted the loan to do so. The lender apparently hoped they could flip their house and invert some of that money into the newly approved... 80/20.

A year later they declare bankruptcy on A MILLION DOLLARS. They were 23 years-old. This happend a year ago. THOUSANDS of people in the DC area were doing that and then declaring bankruptcy.

How did this all start? Well, pay attention to Dart's posts. The Democrats were the ones creating this monster in the first place. The Republicans actually wanted to regulate the lending markets since the 90's. They were prevented from doing so because to regulate the lending markets was deemed "racist" because homeownership would have been limited to people who could *gasp* afford a home.

Thank you Democrats.
You can’t trust adults to tell you the truth.

Scream the lie, whisper the retraction.- The Left
_dartagnan
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Re: Sam Harris on Sarah Palin

Post by _dartagnan »

Same with yours, unfortunately.


Touche.
“All knowledge of reality starts from experience and ends in it...Propositions arrived at by purely logical means are completely empty as regards reality." - Albert Einstein
_GoodK

Re: Sam Harris on Sarah Palin

Post by _GoodK »

antishock8 wrote:The Democrats were the ones creating this monster in the first place. ...Thank you Democrats.


Wait a second... Was Reagan a Democrat?
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