Sam Harris on Sarah Palin

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_Trevor
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Re: Sam Harris on Sarah Palin

Post by _Trevor »

dartagnan wrote:Newsbusters isn't a news agency, it is a news analyst website that exposes outright leftist bias, and the bias is so thick it is able to post articles every few hours throughout the day. It is a useful tool in filtering out the truth from the dung that gets thrown our way. I never said Fox wasn't biased, but it is clearly more reliable than the rest of the liberal left, especially when you dissect Hannity from the equation. If you don't believe me, just ask Hillary.


Show me where I claimed that Newsbusters is a "news agency." I double dog dare ya.

It is easy to imagine leftist bias in THE MEDIA, if you look hard enough. Just like Falwell could see "gayness" in a teletubby, and hysterical Christians could hear backwards-masked Satanic lyrics in all of those rock-n-roll records.

Hillary Duff watches Fox? Say it isn't so!
“I was hooked from the start,” Snoop Dogg said. “We talked about the purpose of life, played Mousetrap, and ate brownies. The kids thought it was off the hook, for real.”
_Brackite
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Re: Sam Harris on Sarah Palin

Post by _Brackite »

Hello Brent,


Brent Metcalfe wrote:Hi Ray, Kevin, and Brackite,

Each of you strikes me as a thoughtful, astute interpreter of Mormonism—irrespective of your political allegiances.




Thanks very much, Brent!!!.


Brent Metcalfe wrote:
But let me be candid: your accusation(s) that I have "used" anyone for polemical purposes, only to castigate my lackey due to a lack of adherence to my politics or areligiosity, is unmitigated b***s***!—offensive to the core.

In online venues, I've never played cheerleader or coach to any student of Mormonism. I've focused my criticisms—supportive or otherwise—on the merits of a given argument.

I could elaborate ad nauseam. I could, but I see no point.

I wish you all the best.

Cheers,

</brent>




I am sorry if I thought so.

I also wish all the best too.
"And I've said it before, you want to know what Joseph Smith looked like in Nauvoo, just look at Trump." - Fence Sitter
_dartagnan
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Re: Sam Harris on Sarah Palin

Post by _dartagnan »

Show me where I claimed that Newsbusters is a "news agency." I double dog dare ya.

Show me where I claimed you claimed Newsbusters was a news agency. I triple dog dare ya. I'm simply pointing out that the bias of mainstream news agencies is hardly comparable to a newsbusting type website.
It is easy to imagine leftist bias in THE MEDIA

It is even easier to just see it. No imagination necessary.
“All knowledge of reality starts from experience and ends in it...Propositions arrived at by purely logical means are completely empty as regards reality." - Albert Einstein
_Brackite
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Re: Sam Harris on Sarah Palin

Post by _Brackite »

LifeOnaPlate wrote:
Brackite wrote:


Hello LifeOnaPlate,

Well Actually, G.W.B. is Not on the Ballot this Election Cycle. It is Senator John McCain that is on the ballot for U.S. President. He is indeed my choice for U.S. President. Senator John McCain has demonstrated that he is bi-partisan and fiscally Conservative.
Do you really want Barack Obama, Liberal House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, All three of them in charge of the Country for the next couple of Years??? Do you really want higher taxes and Disastrous out of control Spending which will very likely happen if Barack Obama, Liberal House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid are all in charge of the Country??? Do you really want big time Political Liberalism in this Country of ours? I sure don't


Will you be paying higher taxes if Obama gets to decide?



Probably Yes, if the Democratic Control House of Representatives under the Leadership of Liberal Democratic House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, and the Democratic Control U.S. Senate under the Leadership of Democratic Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid put together a bill and get it to passed with a raise on the gasoline tax.



moksha wrote:
Brackite wrote: Do you really want higher taxes and Disastrous out of control Spending which will very likely happen if Barack Obama, Liberal House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid are all in charge of the Country??? Do you really want big time Political Liberalism in this Country of ours? I sure don't


Don't forget putting fluoride in the drinking water to turn us into a bunch of drug crazed pinkos. They might put an end to the war and enact a national health care system! We need the Republicans to maintain our current economy! Four more years of the Bush doctrine!



Hello Moksha,

George W. Bush is Not running again for another four Years. And Neither is Dick Cheney running for another four years. Both George W. Bush and Dick Cheney are Not on the Ballot this Election Cycle, and they will both be leaving the White House very soon.
I strongly Support four years of Senator John McCain and Governor Sarah Palin being in charge of the U.S. Presidency for the next four years. Senator John McCain and Governor Sarah Palin are the two People that I will be voting for next month, for the U.S. Presidency for the next four Years.
"And I've said it before, you want to know what Joseph Smith looked like in Nauvoo, just look at Trump." - Fence Sitter
_Trevor
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Re: Sam Harris on Sarah Palin

Post by _Trevor »

dartagnan wrote:It is even easier to just see it. No imagination necessary.


Sure. When you are looking at it through the eyes of faith!
“I was hooked from the start,” Snoop Dogg said. “We talked about the purpose of life, played Mousetrap, and ate brownies. The kids thought it was off the hook, for real.”
_Trevor
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Re: Sam Harris on Sarah Palin

Post by _Trevor »

dartagnan wrote:Show me where I claimed you claimed Newsbusters was a news agency...


When you begin your response to my post with "Newbusters isn't...," then it is a fair inference to see you as attempting to correct something I wrote about Newsbusters.

I think I see a pattern. No matter what, Kevin has an extremely difficult time admitting that he is mistaken about even small and relatively inconsequential things. Methinks there is an ego issue here.
“I was hooked from the start,” Snoop Dogg said. “We talked about the purpose of life, played Mousetrap, and ate brownies. The kids thought it was off the hook, for real.”
_dartagnan
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Re: Sam Harris on Sarah Palin

Post by _dartagnan »

Sure. When you are looking at it through the eyes of faith!

So just to be clear, do you actually believe there is no lefitist media bias, that it is simply in our imaginations, and that this "imagination" is something based on faith? Because that seems like a lot of needless apologetic spin to avoid the most likely and obvious explanation: the media truly is on Obama's side.

The left leaning media is an established fact and the evidence is so abundant that the only difficult thing to imagine is someone as intelligent as you refusing to acknowledge it. Hell, even the NYT editor admitted being a leftist publication. Even Hillary Clinton said FOX was more fair than all the other news outlets. A willingness to ignore the dozens upon dozens of examples that are pumped out on a weekly basis, would be an amazing statement in and of itself.

What makes Newsbusters so entertaining is that it highlights the numerous examples of overt liberal media bias that appear on a daily basis. I see it every day when I watch CNN and MSNBC but I can't watch all of them simultaneously, so it is good to see them collected regularly and archived. Some of these examples are truly outrageous. Butit also offers kudos when the media does the right thing. For example, just this morning it reported that a Detroit radio reporter was fired for showing up at an Obama rally with an Obama t-shirt.

But it is also good to report on things the media pretends doesn't exist. For example on the Early Show, Maggie Rodriguez was speaking with Fred Thompson and she just went off on Governor Palin:
RODRIGUEZ: But everybody knows other Supreme Court rulings.
THOMPSON: No they don’t.
RODRIGUEZ: Ordinary Americans would know Supreme Court rulings.
THOMPSON: Some do and some don’t.

Don't you think that's a bit of hyperbole there? And she just takes it for granted that Palin doesn't know of any SC rulings. But the best part was this:
FRED THOMPSON: Then she comes here and finds that the moderator apparently has got a financial interest in Barack Obama being elected president. So if I were in her shoes, I would come in --
MAGGIE RODRIGUEZ: Well I don't know about that. We'll let Gwen Ifill answer that for herself. But right now, we have to leave it there.
THOMPSON: Does she not have a book coming out on Obama?
RODRIGUEZ: We have to leave it there.

LOL!

Now whenever I see FOX commentators talking about Biden's gaffes, they are always in the context of a response to the double-standard in the media. For example, they'll be talking about how other news agencies will keep pounding on Palin's gaffes and then they'll say "Why don't they address Biden's claim that he was fired at in a helicopter?" I don't see them dedicating entire segments to nothing but Biden bashing. There is simply no comparison to these different levels of bias.

Maggie Rodriguez knew "nothing" about this liberal mediator. And why would she? You'd have to leave it up to FOX news to report it. One would reasonably think this was newsworthy. So instead of people calling FOX biased for reportingit, why aren't they addressing the problem?

A moderator who is clearly in the tank for the democrat candidate and now aims to benefit financially upon his election, once her book is released on the day of his innauguration? Is it just conservative bias to report on this?

When you begin your response to my post with "Newbusters isn't...," then it is a fair inference to see you as attempting to correct something I wrote about Newsbusters.

It would also be a fair inference to see me as simply attempting to illustrate the differences between the elite media outlets and a relatively obscure website designed for something entirely different. Both are biased, but that doesn't quite level the playing field. You also referred to Murdoch and Newsbusters as "objective." Following your rationale here, I should infer from this that you're accusing me of calling Murdoch and Newsbusters objective.

Sure, yours was a "fair" inference I suppose, if you're always acting on the defensive then I guess it is fair to assume someone is attacking. But my implications are not dictated by whatever you choose to infer. It would have been more fair for you to ask for clarification instead of assuming the worst case scenario and then proceed with a straw man.

I think I see a pattern. No matter what, Kevin has an extremely difficult time admitting that he is mistaken about even small and relatively inconsequential things. Methinks there is an ego issue here.

What am I refusing to admit?

The only pattern I see is your consistent failure to properly infer what I'm implying, and then try to blame it on my ego or whatever.
“All knowledge of reality starts from experience and ends in it...Propositions arrived at by purely logical means are completely empty as regards reality." - Albert Einstein
_Trevor
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Re: Sam Harris on Sarah Palin

Post by _Trevor »

dartagnan wrote:So just to be clear, do you actually believe there is no lefitist media bias, that it is simply in our imaginations, and that this "imagination" is something based on faith? Because that seems like a lot of needless apologetic spin to avoid the most likely and obvious explanation: the media truly is on Obama's side.


I believe that people are biased. I do not believe that there is this monolithic entity known as the "media" that has a collective "bias." I also think that a number of voices in conservative America get a lot of mileage from playing the persecution card. I think the love of Obama has much more to do with what some people find to be charismatic about him. Much like the media fell all over themselves for 'W' during his campaign. We could also talk about how this supposedly liberal media turned on Dean, Gore, and McCain. In other words, I think the phenomenon we are talking about here is not liberal bias. There are other things at work, and the picture is far more complex.

dartagnan wrote:Butit also offers kudos when the media does the right thing. For example, just this morning it reported that a Detroit radio reporter was fired for showing up at an Obama rally with an Obama t-shirt.


I hope this was because he was on the job when doing this. Otherwise, that would be a pretty egregious infringement upon his rights.

dartagnan wrote:But it is also good to report on things the media pretends doesn't exist. For example on the Early Show, Maggie Rodriguez was speaking with Fred Thompson and she just went off on Governor Palin:


I agree that Rodriguez was being silly. The question here is not what any ordinary American should be expected to know, but what one might expect a presidential or vice-presidential contender to know. It seems to me that a person who could not even pass the citizenship test might be better overlooked when seeking such high office. But, I am crazy like that.

dartagnan wrote:And she just takes it for granted that Palin doesn't know of any SC rulings.


She had an opportunity to fill us in on what she knew. She knows about Roe v. Wade. I think that is clear enough. Maybe she froze up and blanked on others. Maybe she just doesn't know that much about SC rulings.

FRED THOMPSON: Then she comes here and finds that the moderator apparently has got a financial interest in Barack Obama being elected president. So if I were in her shoes, I would come in --


Was he talking to Ifill? Is it Rodriguez's job to answer for Ifill? Am I to understand that the fact that Ifill wrote such a book is evidence you are offering for the liberal bias of "the media"?

dartagnan wrote:Now whenever I see FOX commentators talking about Biden's gaffes, they are always in the context of a response to the double-standard in the media.


In other words, their raison d'etre is to be something of a Newsbusters masquerading as a media outlet? I seem to recall some of their own employees were recently unhappy about a long patch of Obama bashing--so much so that one got up and left the set.

dartagnan wrote:Maggie Rodriguez knew "nothing" about this liberal mediator. And why would she? You'd have to leave it up to FOX news to report it. One would reasonably think this was newsworthy. So instead of people calling FOX biased for reportingit, why aren't they addressing the problem?


Why is it necessarily a problem that she wrote favorably about Obama on her own time? Has it greatly biased everything that comes from her? I don't get it. Where exactly is the problem? What I also don't get is why it is bias to ask a vice-presidential candidate how much she knows about the Supreme Court and its historic role in this country. Both liberals and conservatives really want to know what she thinks of rulings that they care about. So asking is bullying? Expecting her to know is unreasonable?

dartagnan wrote:A moderator who is clearly in the tank for the democrat candidate and now aims to benefit financially upon his election, once her book is released on the day of his innauguration? Is it just conservative bias to report on this?


No, I don't think it is conservative bias to report on it. It is disingenuous to suggest that this is evidence of biased reporting on the job. Biased reporting on the job is evidence of biased reporting on the job, not which candidate one prefers or writes about elsewhere or on one's own time.

dartagnan wrote:It would also be a fair inference to see me as simply attempting to illustrate the differences between the elite media outlets and a relatively obscure website designed for something entirely different.


When your writing is unclear, you can expect people to interpret it in ways you did not intend. And I understand that works both ways.
“I was hooked from the start,” Snoop Dogg said. “We talked about the purpose of life, played Mousetrap, and ate brownies. The kids thought it was off the hook, for real.”
_LifeOnaPlate
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Re: Sam Harris on Sarah Palin

Post by _LifeOnaPlate »

Again, Kevin, "the media" doesn't exist except in your mind, and the minds of many others, or course. "The media" is a non-entity.
One moment in annihilation's waste,
one moment, of the well of life to taste-
The stars are setting and the caravan
starts for the dawn of nothing; Oh, make haste!

-Omar Khayaam

*Be on the lookout for the forthcoming album from Jiminy Finn and the Moneydiggers.*
_dartagnan
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Re: Sam Harris on Sarah Palin

Post by _dartagnan »

I believe that people are biased. I do not believe that there is this monolithic entity known as the "media" that has a collective "bias."

Nobody said anything about a monolith. To speak of liberal media bias is to speak in general terms. Of course there will be the isolated stations like FOX, as well as a few talk radio shows that are openly partisan, but on the whole, the elite news outlets including ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN, MSNBC, PBS (essentially everything but FOX) are overwhelmingly biased in favor of whoever it is that's running against a Republican. This is anot a secret, and it is silly to suggest it isn't so.
I also think that a number of voices in conservative America get a lot of mileage from playing the persecution card.

It is only a persecution card ifit is unjustified. You certainly wouldn't call Jews who commemorate survivors of the Holocaust as "playing the persecution card," so your choise of words here reveals your own bias on the matter.
I think the love of Obama has much more to do with what some people find to be charismatic about him. Much like the media fell all over themselves for 'W' during his campaign.

The "love" of Obama? You make it sound like the polls are in favor of Obama by 98%. It is more like half and half so there is no real evidence that the country just happens to love Obama more. So what are the odds that every single news Journalist just happens to be in love with Obama when the odds are only about 50% that the country as a whole is? And what happened to journalistic ethics and seeking to be, or at least, appear to be objective? You talk a lot about Murdoch, but you seem to be ignorant that George Soros, one of the richest men in the world, has been dumping tens of millions into media campaigns to attack the right.

And don't you know this "love" is mostly staged? Take for example the school children singing in praise of Obama. Do you really think they all support him? That they know anything about politics at their age? You don't think maybe someone put them up to it?

http://www.suntimes.com/news/politics/o ... 08.article

"Obama's critics have ripped the song, comparing it to a video of North Korean children singing to their dictator."

No kidding.
I hope this was because he was on the job when doing this. Otherwise, that would be a pretty egregious infringement upon his rights.

Yes he was on the job, but the CNN reporters pretty much do similar things. I remember one was reporting from a convention where thousands had gathered to hear Obama speak, and the journalist was the giddiest of them all. He got all misty and said "you can just feel the message of hope." But he wasn't fired. No way. And that's not liberal bias apparently, because the issue is "more complex."
I agree that Rodriguez was being silly.

But silliness isn't the issue. She was being openly favorable to the Obama Biden ticket. In isolation these incidents might appear dubious but they add up, and people are influenced by the perception of the media. Surely you understand this. Ultimately the media has a tremendous impacton how people vote, and can be the deciding factor in a close election.
She had an opportunity to fill us in on what she knew. She knows about Roe v. Wade. I think that is clear enough. Maybe she froze up and blanked on others. Maybe she just doesn't know that much about SC rulings.

The issue wasn't about being able to discuss particular rulings. Apparently she was asked to name some. We already know for a fact that she is aware of other SC rulings because she has mentioned them in her debate in Alaska. The point here is that the liberal media is ignoring Biden's remarks that unquestionably reveal his ignorance, and are focusing on ambiguous instances against Palin that require mindreading.
Am I to understand that the fact that Ifill wrote such a book is evidence you are offering for the liberal bias of "the media"?

I'm saying that because she is overtly biased and in the tank for Obama, there is no reason to expect her to be a fair moderator, and she should never have been appointed to begin with. Thompson brought this up because it was newsworthy. Rodriguez, ironically enough, claimed ignorance while at the same time complaining about Palin's ignorance.
In other words, their raison d'etre is to be something of a Newsbusters masquerading as a media outlet? I seem to recall some of their own employees were recently unhappy about a long patch of Obama bashing--so much so that one got up and left the set.

Have a reference? I've never heard about this. In any event, FOX isn't nearly as biased as the rest. Just compare apples/apples. The View hosts were ganging up on McCain and called him a liar when in fact he wasn't. They all acted like they wanted to have Obama's baby.
Why is it necessarily a problem that she wrote favorably about Obama on her own time?

This woman has ain invested interest in seeing Obama win the election. Because the book will be released on inauguration day. A book tends to sell more copies if it is about a man who is the President, instead of someone who almost became President.
What I also don't get is why it is bias to ask a vice-presidential candidate how much she knows about the Supreme Court and its historic role in this country.

But that wasn't the question Trevor. She was asked specifically which rulings she disagreed with. This isn't the same as saying "discuss with us any SC ruling that comes to mind."
Both liberals and conservatives really want to know what she thinks of rulings that they care about. So asking is bullying? Expecting her to know is unreasonable?

Again you are ignoring the point that Obama and Biden were never asked any of this. EVER.
No, I don't think it is conservative bias to report on it. It is disingenuous to suggest that this is evidence of biased reporting on the job. Biased reporting on the job is evidence of biased reporting on the job, not which candidate one prefers or writes about elsewhere or on one's own time.

I think you have overlooked the fact that she had a vested interest in seeing Obama victorious. I'll let you factor that into your thinking.
“All knowledge of reality starts from experience and ends in it...Propositions arrived at by purely logical means are completely empty as regards reality." - Albert Einstein
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