Round Two: Presidential Debate

The Off-Topic forum for anything non-LDS related, such as sports or politics. Rated PG through PG-13.
_dartagnan
_Emeritus
Posts: 2750
Joined: Sun Dec 31, 2006 4:27 pm

Round Two: Presidential Debate

Post by _dartagnan »

OK, I guess I'll start it.

Who do you think won, and why?

I found it interesting that the Town Hall debate included more than 80 audience members who were declared "undecided." That is why they were chosen.

After a few questions were raised by the audience, I noticed that two of them were black. But then as I looked at the audience behind McCain, I noticed something strange. There wasn't a single black person in that section of 20 people. As the camera followed him walk around the stage I began to count as many as I could find in the other sections.

All together I think I managed to count 4-5 black persons in that crowd of 80+.

These were undecided.

What does that tell us? That most black voters are not undecided. They are already in the tank for Obama.

I think McCain lost the first debate, but won this one hands down; epecially on the 1st question. Obama was repeating his talking points again, trying to blame McCain and Bush for crisis at Fanny Mae.

Why is Obama able to get away with such lies? Because he knows the American people are ghenerally uneducated. At least the voters in his camp are. He's banking on their unwillingness to check the facts. And speaking of facts, why isn't fact checker checking Obama's repeated claim that the crisis is due to these mysterious "economic policies" implemented by Bush and supported by McCain.

This is a typical guilt by association trick and he's getting away with it. He acts like there was no regulation going on. There was regulation, and it didn't stop the crisis. Why? Because the democrats and Fanny Mae are one big happy family. More regulators means more out of work democrats who are owed favors, get hired by the government to "regulate." Which is code word for democrats for "turning a blind eye." Here is an excellent synopsis from Investor's Business daily:


'Crony' Capitalism Is Root Cause Of Fannie And Freddie Troubles

In the past couple of weeks, as the financial crisis has intensified, a new talking point has emerged from the Democrats in Congress: This is all a "crisis of capitalism," in socialist financier George Soros' phrase, and a failure to regulate our markets sufficiently.

Well, those critics may be right — it is a crisis of capitalism. A crisis of politically driven crony capitalism, to be precise.

Indeed, Democrats have so effectively mastered crony capitalism as a governing strategy that they've convinced many in the media and the public that they had nothing whatsoever to do with our current financial woes.

Barack Obama has repeatedly blasted "Bush-McCain" economic policies as the cause, as if the two were joined at the hip.

Funny, because over the past 8 years, those who tried to fix Fannie Mae (FNM) and Freddie Mac (FRE) — the trigger for today's widespread global financial meltdown — were stymied repeatedly by congressional Democrats.

This wasn't an accident. Though some key Republicans deserve blame as well, it was a concerted Democratic effort that made reform of Fannie and Freddie impossible.

The reason for this is simple: Fannie and Freddie became massive providers both of reliable votes among grateful low-income homeowners, and of massive giving to the Democratic Party by grateful investment bankers, both at the two government-sponsored enterprises and on Wall Street.

The result: A huge taxpayer rescue that at last estimate is approaching $700 billion but may go even higher.

It all started, innocently enough, in 1994 with President Clinton's rewrite of the Carter-era Community Reinvestment Act.

Ostensibly intended to help deserving minority families afford homes — a noble idea — it instead led to a reckless surge in mortgage lending that has pushed our financial system to the brink of chaos.

Subprime's Mentors

Fannie and Freddie, the main vehicle for Clinton's multicultural housing policy, drove the explosion of the subprime housing market by buying up literally hundreds of billions of dollars in substandard loans — funding loans that ordinarily wouldn't have been made based on such time-honored notions as putting money down, having sufficient income, and maintaining a payment record indicating creditworthiness.

With all the old rules out the window, Fannie and Freddie gobbled up the market. Using extraordinary leverage, they eventually controlled 90% of the secondary market mortgages. Their total portfolio of loans topped $5.4 trillion — half of all U.S. mortgage lending. They borrowed $1.5 trillion from U.S. capital markets with — wink, wink — an "implicit" government guarantee of the debts.

This created the problem we are having today.

As we noted a week ago, subprime lending surged from around $35 billion in 1994 to nearly $1 trillion last year — for total growth of 2,757% as of last year.

No real market grows that fast for that long without being fixed.

And that's just what Fannie and Freddie were — fixed. They became a government-run, privately owned home finance monopoly.

Fannie and Freddie became huge contributors to Congress, spending millions to influence votes. As we've noted here before, the bulk of the money went to Democrats.

Dollars To Democrats

Meanwhile, Fannie and Freddie also became a kind of jobs program for out-of-work Democrats.

Franklin Raines and Jim Johnson, the CEOs under whom the worst excesses took place in the late 1990s to mid-2000s, were both high-placed Democratic operatives and advisers to presidential candidate Barack Obama.

Clinton administration official Jamie Gorelick also got taken care of by the Fannie-Freddie circle. So did top Clinton aide Rahm Emanuel, among others.

On the surface, this sounds innocent. Someone has to head the highly political Fannie and Freddie, right?

But this is why crony capitalism is so dangerous. Those in power at Fannie and Freddie, as the sirens began to wail about some of their more egregious practices, began to bully those who opposed them.

That included journalists, like the Wall Street Journal's Paul Gigot, and GOP congressmen, like Wisconsin Rep. Paul Ryan, whom Fannie and Freddie actively lobbied against in his own district. Rep. Cliff Stearns, R-Fla., who tried to hold hearings on Fannie's and Freddie's questionable accounting practices in 2004, found himself stripped of responsibility for their oversight by House Speaker Dennis Hastert — a Republican.

Where, you ask, were the regulators?

Congress created a weak regulator to oversee Freddie and Fannie — the Office of Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight — which had to go hat in hand each year to Capitol Hill for its budget, unlike other major regulators.

With lax oversight, Fannie and Freddie had a green light to expand their operations at breakneck speed.

Fannie and Freddie had a reliable coterie of supporters in the Senate, especially among Democrats.

"We now know that many of the senators who protected Fannie and Freddie, including Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton and Christopher Dodd, have received mind-boggling levels of financial support from them over the years," wrote economist Kevin Hassett on Bloomberg.com this week.

Buying Friends In High Places

Over the span of his career, Obama ranks No. 2 in campaign donations from Fannie and Freddie, taking over $125,000. Dodd, head of the Senate Banking panel, is tops at $165,000. Clinton, ranked 12th, has collected $75,000.

Meanwhile, Freddie and Fannie opened what were euphemistically called "Partnership Offices" in the districts of key members of Congress to channel millions of dollars in funding and patronage to their supporters.

In the space of a little more than a decade, Fannie and Freddie spent close to $150 million on lobbying efforts. So pervasive were their efforts, they seemed unassailable, even during a Republican administration.

Yet, by 2004, the crony capitalism had gone too far. Even OFHEO issued a report essentially criticizing Fannie and Freddie for Enron-style accounting that let them boost profits in order to pay their politically well-connected executives hefty bonuses.

It emerged that Clinton aide Raines, who took Fannie Mae's helm as CEO in 1999, took in nearly $100 million by the time he left in 2005. Others, including former Clinton Justice Department official Gorelick, took $75 million from the Fannie-Freddie piggy bank.

Even so, Fannie and Freddie were forced to restate their earnings by some $3.5 billion, due to the accounting shenanigans.

As we noted, those who tried to halt this frenzy of activity found themselves hit by a political buzz saw.

President Bush, reviled and criticized by Democrats, tried no fewer than 17 times, by White House count, to raise the issue of Fannie-Freddie reform. A bill cleared the Senate Banking panel in 2005, but stalled due to implacable opposition from Democrats and a critical core of GOP abettors. Rep. Barney Frank, who now runs the powerful House Financial Services Committee, helped spearhead that fight.

Now, with the taxpayer tab approaching $1 trillion or more, we're learning the costs of crony capitalism.

In the coming days, an IBD series will look into this phenomenon in greater detail — how we got here, who's responsible, and why nothing was done.


I spoke too soon. Apparently this fact checker noted the same problem:

OBAMA: "I believe this is a final verdict on the failed economic policies of the last eight years, strongly promoted by President Bush and supported by Senator McCain, that essentially said that we should strip away regulations, consumer protections, let the market run wild, and prosperity would rain down on all of us. It hasn't worked out that way. And so now we've got to take some decisive action."

THE FACTS: McCain has indeed favored less regulation over the years but supported tighter rules and accountability on Fannie Mae (FNM) and Freddie Mac (FRE) two years before the start of a financial crisis prompted in part by those giant mortgage underwriters. Obama was not a leader in that unsuccessful effort. Some of the current problems can be traced to legislation passed in 1999 that lifted many regulations over the financial industry. That deregulation was championed by then-Sen. Phil Gramm, R-Texas, a McCain supporter, but also by President Clinton, who signed the legislation, and by former Clinton Treasury Secretary Robert Rubin, now a top Obama economic adviser.


What an idiot. But he knows most Americans are ignorant and are too lazy to look this stuff up. This is why he will be our next President.
“All knowledge of reality starts from experience and ends in it...Propositions arrived at by purely logical means are completely empty as regards reality." - Albert Einstein
_bcspace
_Emeritus
Posts: 18534
Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2006 6:48 pm

Re: Round Two: Presidential Debate

Post by _bcspace »

I find myself couponless in the brave new DTV world.

What does that tell us? That most black voters are not undecided. They are already in the tank for Obama.


Amazing how conservative that group actually is yet they still do the bidding of their NAACP masters. For sure most of them are voting for Obama simply because he's black.
Machina Sublime
Satan's Plan Deconstructed.
Your Best Resource On Joseph Smith's Polygamy.
Conservatism is the Gospel of Christ and the Plan of Salvation in Action.
The Degeneracy Of Progressivism.
_aussieguy55
_Emeritus
Posts: 2122
Joined: Sat Nov 18, 2006 9:22 pm

Re: Round Two: Presidential Debate

Post by _aussieguy55 »

More women might vote for Obama as he is a cool sensitive guy who is still with his only wife, is demonstrably affectionate with her, does not play with his wedding ring while another woman is speaking.

More men might vote for McCain because he does not read books, like bikers, guns, war, jokingly suggesting his wife enter a boob showing contest, has a temper, calls an opponent "that one" the kind of gung ho in your face white working class like.
Hilary Clinton " I won the places that represent two-thirds of America's GDP.I won in places are optimistic diverse, dynamic, moving forward"
_dartagnan
_Emeritus
Posts: 2750
Joined: Sun Dec 31, 2006 4:27 pm

Re: Round Two: Presidential Debate

Post by _dartagnan »

We will see record turnouts for black voters this year,and it will have been a key factor in his win.

More women might vote for Obama as he is a cool sensitive guy who is still with his only wife, is demonstrably affectionate with her, does not play with his wedding ring while another woman is speaking.


More sensitive? Don't be an idiot. Why the hell would anyone entrust the security of this nation to the more "sensitive" guy anyway? Since when does being dragged around by the collar by a dominant woman like Michelle Obama, indicate a qualification for leadership?

And I love the way the liberals tracked down his ex wife hoping to find all sorts of goodies on him, but all they got was her "adoration" of the man. That hardly sounds like an insensitive or abusive ex-husband like the one you idiots keep trying to recreate for political purposes.

More men might vote for McCain because he does not read books, like bikers, guns, war, jokingly suggesting his wife enter a boob showing contest, has a temper, calls an opponent "that one" the kind of gung ho in your face white working class like.


At least he doesn't make friends with anti-American freaks like his pastor and the Ayers couple. But I can see how liberals would find this perfectly OK in their book. Oh, and devotion to one wife, like Kennedy, Clinton?
“All knowledge of reality starts from experience and ends in it...Propositions arrived at by purely logical means are completely empty as regards reality." - Albert Einstein
_Some Schmo
_Emeritus
Posts: 15602
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 2:59 pm

Re: Round Two: Presidential Debate

Post by _Some Schmo »

dartagnan wrote:More sensitive? Don't be an idiot. Why the hell would anyone entrust the security of this nation to the more "sensitive" guy anyway? Since when does being dragged around by the collar by a dominant woman like Michelle Obama, indicate a qualification for leadership?

You can always rely on dart for something stupid he wrote to quote. I can see why he's supporting McCain; they are both going out of their way to prove to everyone they're a loser.

So, let's see now... dart's proven himself to be a bigot, homophobic (bigot), racist (bigot), and now a mysoginist (bigot) (not to mention a flaming ignoramous (bigot)).

Next we'll find out he's a secret member of the KKK and a proud supporter of the Aryan Nation.

It would be easier to laugh at him if he weren't so pathetic.
God belief is for people who don't want to live life on the universe's terms.
_dartagnan
_Emeritus
Posts: 2750
Joined: Sun Dec 31, 2006 4:27 pm

Re: Round Two: Presidential Debate

Post by _dartagnan »

This is precisely what I'm talking about, and it is what drives so many people to vote for Obama. Because if you don't, then you're a racist. Schmo has no substance or intelligent commentary to offer, just idiotic slurs as usual.

I'm in the KKK. What logic!

More than 90% of black voters will vote for Obama this year. It is already proving to be a break out year for black voters. Obama will win, but it won't be an education based vote.
“All knowledge of reality starts from experience and ends in it...Propositions arrived at by purely logical means are completely empty as regards reality." - Albert Einstein
_Some Schmo
_Emeritus
Posts: 15602
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 2:59 pm

Re: Round Two: Presidential Debate

Post by _Some Schmo »

dartagnan wrote:This is precisely what I'm talking about, and it is what drives so many people to vote for Obama. Because if you don't, then you're a racist. Schmo has no substance or intelligent commentary to offer, just idiotic slurs as usual.

I'm in the KKK. What logic!

More than 90% of black voters will vote for Obama this year. It is already proving to be a break out year for black voters. Obama will win, but it won't be an education based vote.

Well, I typed up a response but lost it.

I'll just say that you're the only one making an issue out of race. I've never brought it up. You seem obsessed by it, and have the balls to actually suggest that's all Obama has going for him. I suppose you think that constitutes "intelligent commentary."

Well, you're a moron, as everyone here painfully knows. There's no way to talk to you without noting the obvious: you've got the intelligence of an earthworm. You may just be the dumbest person I've ever talked to. Actually, there's no doubt about it.
God belief is for people who don't want to live life on the universe's terms.
_Some Schmo
_Emeritus
Posts: 15602
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 2:59 pm

Re: Round Two: Presidential Debate

Post by _Some Schmo »

One thing I do get gratification out of... It's pretty obvious dart's head must be exploding with the way the polls are going these days (in fact, he's probably already had a stroke, which would explain why his posts seem to impossibly become more and more stupid with time). For that alone, this election season is highly entertaining.

hehehe
God belief is for people who don't want to live life on the universe's terms.
_richardMdBorn
_Emeritus
Posts: 1639
Joined: Sat Oct 28, 2006 3:05 am

Re: Round Two: Presidential Debate

Post by _richardMdBorn »

aussieguy55 wrote:More women might vote for Obama as he is a cool sensitive guy who is still with his only wife, is demonstrably affectionate with her, does not play with his wedding ring while another woman is speaking.
I guess what went on in Springfield stays in Springfield. There are plenty of rumors that BHO shares at least one thing in common with Bill Clinton. That's according to senior person at the Chicago Tribune.
_Dr. Shades
_Emeritus
Posts: 14117
Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2006 9:07 pm

Re: Round Two: Presidential Debate

Post by _Dr. Shades »

richardMdBorn wrote:There are plenty of rumors that BHO shares at least one thing in common with Bill Clinton.


His love of cigars?
"Finally, for your rather strange idea that miracles are somehow linked to the amount of gay sexual gratification that is taking place would require that primitive Christianity was launched by gay sex, would it not?"

--Louis Midgley
Post Reply