I see, you want to make sure that people are free to spew hate speech which endangers lives by promoting hate and lies (think of the skin heads who want to kill balck school children), without fear of having there hands slapped by with a few comfy days in jail.
Do you know how many unjust jail sentences happen in this country? Black kids in jail for years for selling pot while Wall Street fat cats lie, cheat, and defraud and then sit with drink on a beach in Cancun even after being caught?
This country has a much bigger problem with justice than Sweden.
Like the founders, I take free speech very seriously. And condemning homoeroticism and/or Islam != lies.
There is no such thing as the right not to be offended. (Not in this country, anyway.)
Caeli enarrant gloriam Dei
(I lost access to my Milesius account, so I had to retrieve this one from the mothballs.)
Calculus Crusader wrote: There is no such thing as the right not to be offended. (Not in this country, anyway.)
It's not about being offended.
This is what hate speech leads to
Last edited by W3C [Validator] on Tue Oct 28, 2008 6:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
when believers want to give their claims more weight, they dress these claims up in scientific terms. When believers want to belittle atheism or secular humanism, they call it a "religion". -Beastie
yesterday's Mormon doctrine is today's Mormon folklore.-Buffalo
It depends on the content of the speech. Saying "Let's go kill some gays/Muslims" is a far cry from saying "Homosexuality is immoral and a perversion" or "Muhammad was a false prophet and Islam is an inherently violent religion."
You are being emotive, not rational, professor.
Caeli enarrant gloriam Dei
(I lost access to my Milesius account, so I had to retrieve this one from the mothballs.)
I say it's hate speech when someone says that Mormons are devils, not Christians, who are going Old Testament hell and worship a false Jesus.
Wait, no. It actually doesn't bother me much at all. Of course maybe it helps that there haven't been any recent large outbreaks of violence against Mormons (although I do wonder about the missionaries who were knifed in Oz a week or two ago).
That's General Leo. He could be my friend if he weren't my enemy. eritis sicut dii I support NCMO
Calculus Crusader wrote:It depends on the content of the speech. Saying "Let's go kill some gays/Muslims" is a far cry from saying "Homosexuality is immoral and a perversion" or "Muhammad was a false prophet and Islam is an inherently violent religion."
You are being emotive, not rational, professor.
Well then where are your examples of outrageous jailings to curtail free speech in Sweden? Åke Green was aquited and, anyway, one or two example of injustices of this sort in Sweden can't begin to compete with the injustices we see in our legal system (nor with the invasions of privacy we see under Bush with things like the patriot act). Let's start there!
when believers want to give their claims more weight, they dress these claims up in scientific terms. When believers want to belittle atheism or secular humanism, they call it a "religion". -Beastie
yesterday's Mormon doctrine is today's Mormon folklore.-Buffalo
I have heard some of the most insane rhetoric here lately. These include comparisons of Obama to the mass murderer Stalin and claims that Obama and his "ilk" will jail those who disagree.
One does not have to come to power via revolution in order to be a Stalinist. Let's take a look at a standard defintion, this one from wikipedia....
Stalinism is the political regime named after Joseph Stalin, leader of the Soviet Union from 1929–1953. It includes an extensive use of propaganda to establish a personality cult around an absolute dictator, as well as extensive use of the secret police to maintain social submission and silence political dissent.
The term "Stalinism" was coined by Lazar Kaganovich and was never used by Joseph Stalin who described himself as a Marxist-Leninist.
Like many other "-isms" it can be used as a pejorative term when referring to nation-states, political parties, or the ideological stance(s) of individuals, particularly "Anti-Revisionists". It is also used as a pejorative to describe politicians and political groups, Communist or non-Communist, who are perceived as particularly authoritarian or hard-line.
There is no doubt that Obama fits the parts I bolded based on his stated beliefs and philosophies. See my other threads on Obama's Marxism (which here equates to Stalinism).
Calculus Crusader wrote:It depends on the content of the speech. Saying "Let's go kill some gays/Muslims" is a far cry from saying "Homosexuality is immoral and a perversion" or "Muhammad was a false prophet and Islam is an inherently violent religion."
You are being emotive, not rational, professor.
Well then where are your examples of outrageous jailings to curtail free speech in Sweden? Åke Green was aquited and, anyway, one or two example of injustices of this sort in Sweden can't begin to compete with the injustices we see in our legal system (nor with the invasions of privacy we see under Bush with things like the patriot act). Let's start there!
Where has McCain tried to prevent a critic from appearing on a radio show? Obama's campaign has done it twice in Chicago in the last two months.
Should Rev. Wright have been jailed for preaching sermons which are hate speech?
richardMdBorn wrote: Where has McCain tried to prevent a critic from appearing on a radio show? Obama's campaign has done it twice in Chicago in the last two months.
Should Rev. Wright have been jailed for preaching sermons which are hate speech?
Only if all the shouting prophets in the Old Testament deserved to be jailed becuase of what they said about their nations and leaders.
when believers want to give their claims more weight, they dress these claims up in scientific terms. When believers want to belittle atheism or secular humanism, they call it a "religion". -Beastie
yesterday's Mormon doctrine is today's Mormon folklore.-Buffalo
Calculus Crusader wrote:It depends on the content of the speech. Saying "Let's go kill some gays/Muslims" is a far cry from saying "Homosexuality is immoral and a perversion" or "Muhammad was a false prophet and Islam is an inherently violent religion."
You are being emotive, not rational, professor.
Well then where are your examples of outrageous jailings to curtail free speech in Sweden? Åke Green was aquited and, anyway, one or two example of injustices of this sort in Sweden can't begin to compete with the injustices we see in our legal system (nor with the invasions of privacy we see under Bush with things like the patriot act). Let's start there!
Professor,
You asked for people being jailed in Sweden and France for disagreeing with the government and I gave you an example from each country. Ake Green's acquittal does not change the fact that he was punished by his government for failing to toe the line. And yes, our justice system is far from perfect, but I fail to see how that excuses the actions of Sweden and France.
As for "invasions of privacy," I do not necessarily think they are unconstitutional. However, just because the government can lawfully do something does not necessarily mean it should.
Caeli enarrant gloriam Dei
(I lost access to my Milesius account, so I had to retrieve this one from the mothballs.)
You asked for people being jailed in Sweden and France for disagreeing with the government and I gave you an example from each country. Ake Green's acquittal does not change the fact that he was punished by his government for failing to toe the line. And yes, our justice system is far from perfect, but I fail to see how that excuses the actions of Sweden and France.
As for "invasions of privacy," I do not necessarily think they are unconstitutional. However, just because the government can lawfully do something does not necessarily mean it should.
What was the original point of all this? Can anyone make point that supports the contention that a socialist governement on the order of Sweden causes more injustice than we have in the U.S?
Of course, Obama is not a socialist so it's really irrelevent but I am curious.
when believers want to give their claims more weight, they dress these claims up in scientific terms. When believers want to belittle atheism or secular humanism, they call it a "religion". -Beastie
yesterday's Mormon doctrine is today's Mormon folklore.-Buffalo
