Every church I know of is selling shares of heaven. Do this, give that, take this dip, light that candle, say these magic words, sign on the dotted line and give me your credit card number - and you get to go to heaven.
Funny. I have never perceived this to be happening in the LDS Church at all.
However, I do agree that there is too much emphasis on numbers and salesmanship, especially in the missionary program. This philosophy existed when I served in the mid 80's. I avoided it like the plague and managed to baptise 40+ people, all of whom are active to this day as far as I can tell, in a US English speaking mission.
I think the Church (i.e. the members and leaders) have to live in two worlds.
In one world, we believe in the Gospel of Christ as taught in the New Testament; you know, the Jesus who wasn't intent on acquiring worldly goods, or forming a corporation, or building buildings, and who told a rich man that he would be more righteous if he sold his worldly goods and gave them to the poor (Matthew 19:21). The same Jesus we believe repeatedly berated the Nephites for desiring "fine" clothing (but not once does he get after them for being immodest, and if "Apocalypto" is any indication, you can bet there were many topless women in the crowd when he came to visit them.)
On the other hand, we believe that Jesus now directs his Church to acquire vast tracts of real estate, to make investments and run his Church as if it were a major world corporation. More than once, He has steered His Church's finances to the brink of bankruptcy and insolvency, but He always comes out on top. He doesn't mind if his followers wear suits that cost many thousands of dollars, or expensive designer dresses, but he totally freaks out if a woman shows a half inch of her "midriff". And he doesn't like it if a woman wears more than one pair of earrings (or guys wear any at all).
Lucky for us, God doesn't appear to be the same today, yesterday and tomorrow. The light of Christ is eminently compatible with the light of capitalism, and both are shining brightly in His modern Church. Maybe he wasn't waiting for the religious freedom of America to restore his Church, but instead He just needed a lightly regulated capitalist society where his Church could become all that it could be.
cinepro wrote:... Lucky for us, God doesn't appear to be the same today, yesterday and tomorrow ...
God doesn't appear to be.
- Whenever a poet or preacher, chief or wizard spouts gibberish, the human race spends centuries deciphering the message. - Umberto Eco - To assert that the earth revolves around the sun is as erroneous as to claim that Jesus was not born of a virgin. - Cardinal Bellarmine at the trial of Galilei
Let’s clear some things up. There is a difference between what the Church owns, and what members of the Church owns. There are also a major difference between money generating investments, like “Deseret Book” and real estate that does not generate money, like temples, Church buildings, welfare farms etc. Here is my list of real estate, bildings, and companies that the Church owns. - The Churches legal entity, which makes it easier to own copyrights and trademarks, was originally: “The Corporation of the President of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints”; now it is: “Intellectual Reserve”. All church magazines; “Ensign”, “NewEra”, and “The Friend”; the Scriptures, and numerous other church aids have this. Deseret Book is the major publisher of church books. - The mall next to the Salt Lake temple. - The Church used to own “Zions Cooperative Mercantile Institution” (ZCMI), but they sold it in 1999. - It is pointless to point out, but I will: all temples, meeting houses, Missionary Training Centers, Church welfare farms, - Church Educational System, is the educational arm of the Church, which owns; Brigham Young University (BYU), BYU-Idaho (formerly Ricks college), BYU-Hawaii, LDS business college, BYU-Jerusalem, several elementary and secondary schools in Mexico, and Seminaries. - Deseret Industries, this is a non-profit organization and a division of Welfare Services. It is mainly a chain of retail thrift stores. The Church though Welfare Services also owns several canneries around the world, pays professional psychologists, and other professionals to answer a Hot Line, mainly for teens, to help girls out when they get pregnant and don’t know what to do. - For the missionary effort, the church owns a fleet of vehicles of cars, and for its humanitarian aid projects, a fleet of diesels. In addition, on a side note for the missionary efforts, the church rents apartments for the missionaries, and takes care of food. The Church pays for transportation to and from missions. The Church strongly encourages members to pay for missions and to donate in the ‘Missionary fund’ $375 a month, but that is splitting hairs. There are several church buildings that have a community field next to them. I’m sure there are more that the Church owns, but I can’t make this more clear, a member, or even a lot of members of the Church, owns real estate, buildings, companies, or anything else, and donates to the Church, does not mean that the Church owns what that Church member(s) owns.
I don't want to pull John Lennon into this, but "imagine there's no heaven." What if the focus were on this life?
Isn't that why people invented religion, dissatisfaction with this life, and the answers it offers us?
There's someone who professed to believe something but, deep down inside, didn't - or at least suspended those convictions long enough to take a walk on the wild side
But what were details of what he really believed? Wasn't Jim Bakker a saved by grace and not works adherent, so how much motivation not to cheat does that maintain in a persons psychology?
And when the confederates saw Jackson standing fearless as a stone wall the army of Northern Virginia took courage and drove the federal army off their land.
harmony wrote: $500 million a year, which we use to help ourselves. I have nothing against fast offerings. I've benefited from them myself from time to time. However, they cannot be confused with humanitarian aid.
Fast Offerings are used to give help to more than just poor members. When other groups talk about charitable giving, they usually sum up the giving so all different charitable pots of money are combined. Many frequently assign a dollar value to volunteer contributions of manpower in charitable efforts as well. Plus, I doubt that initial report was counting the huge relief effort that has gone into some of our responses to natural disasters both domestically and internationally.
moksha wrote:Fast Offerings are used to give help to more than just poor members. When other groups talk about charitable giving, they usually sum up the giving so all different charitable pots of money are combined. Many frequently assign a dollar value to volunteer contributions of manpower in charitable efforts as well. Plus, I doubt that initial report was counting the huge relief effort that has gone into some of our responses to natural disasters both domestically and internationally.
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There is a special fund set up for humanitarian aid for disasters.
(Nevo, Jan 23) And the Melchizedek Priesthood may not have been restored until the summer of 1830, several months after the organization of the Church.
$500 million a year, which we use to help ourselves. I have nothing against fast offerings. I've benefited from them myself from time to time. However, they cannot be confused with humanitarian aid.
Why? They are used to feed and clothe and house and provide hear for many persons throughout the world. I administered FOs for almost 6 years. They certainly ARE humanitarian aid.
Why? They are used to feed and clothe and house and provide hear for many persons throughout the world. I administered FOs for almost 6 years. They certainly ARE humanitarian aid.
Who counts as human under the liberal definition?
And when the confederates saw Jackson standing fearless as a stone wall the army of Northern Virginia took courage and drove the federal army off their land.