concerns & appreciations re LDS faith & community

[_loves2sing]

To me as a parent, it seems like having a reference group that was not into abusing drugs, boosting cars, being teen parents and generally staying on the good side of law enforcement is very worthwhile.

I totally agree, Moksha.

And I'm deeply grateful for this.

Perhaps God has led my daughter to the church for precisely this reason... The LDS community is very large in this area, with many teens and lots of youth activities.

I think my daughter is glad to be part of a large sub-culture within the high school, to have lots of potential friends within the group and lots of activities.

And also:

She is so open-hearted, embracing what she's taught with a lot of sincerity and commitment. I am concerned about her vulnerability... As I wrote before, I wonder about the potential for abuse of power (or even just well-intentioned but misguided words or actions) in those who hold the priesthood.

I also see that she's already taken on some closed-mindedness and some of the "elite" attitude, as if LDS is always right and always knows best. She comes off as being patient with me, with a bit of condescension; she assumes what would be best for me would be to join the church.

[_loves2sing]

I'm a proud momma, so I have to post a link to her little trio. They just got a "1" or excellent at State. The sound isn't that hot on the recording, but it has to do, I suppose. It's a short, simple, but lovely song called Veni Jesu (they're singing a capella here, but had an accompanist at contest):

http://s180.photobucket.com/albums/x144 ... t=Trio.flv

My daughter is in the center, singing soprano.

Thanks for sharing this, Kimberly Ann.

Her voice is lovely... Great smiles, close to the end... and your daughter's closing made me laugh out loud.

Where do you live? What kind of competition was it?

[_moksha]

I also see that she's already taken on some closed-mindedness and some of the "elite" attitude, as if LDS is always right and always knows best. She comes off as being patient with me, with a bit of condescension; she assumes what would be best for me would be to join the church.

This bit of condescension part seems to go with being a teenager. However, some LDS members do display such an attitude of holding their truths to be correct thereby invalidating other truths. I think of this as a result of insularity in their associations with others. They can overcome this with a loving heart and a willingness to learn about others.

[_loves2sing]

This bit of condescension part seems to go with being a teenager. However, some LDS members do display such an attitude of holding their truths to be correct thereby invalidating other truths. I think of this as a result of insularity in their associations with others. They can overcome this with a loving heart and a willingness to learn about others.

Yes, Moksha, teenagers can indeed be condescending to their parents. After all, I am so very much not cool.

But I was referring specifically to conversations about religious and spiritual beliefs. That's where my daughter's attitude has changed during her time in the LDS community.

And I don't think LDS members usually try to be open-minded about these things, as you seem to be saying here. They believe that the LDS church is the one and only true church, that LDS doctrine is the only correct doctrine. They are not open to the possibility that they might be wrong and other people, from other churches or from no church, might be right.

What did you mean about LDS members overcoming this attitude? It seems to be intrinsic to the belief-system.

[_moksha]

Loves2sing, I think there are a number of us Mormons on this site who try to keep an open mind about things. Some are remarkably nonjudgmental.

[_loves2sing]

Loves2sing, I think there are a number of us Mormons on this site who try to keep an open mind about things. Some are remarkably nonjudgmental.

Thanks, Moksha.

I guess I've been over-generalizing.

There are about 6 long-time LDS members who attend Gospel Principles class at our ward, plus the missionary sisters, a woman who was recently baptized, and me, the inquirer.

The true believers all seem convinced that theirs are the only true beliefs.

I'm glad to know that's not universal among Mormons... though it does seem to be an attitude that would be fostered by the "one and only true church" position.

Are you saying not everyone in the church believes this tenet?

[_moksha]

The true believers all seem convinced that theirs are the only true beliefs.

Yes, that has always confused me, when the bulk of all Christian beliefs are the same. I think President Hinckley understood this when he said, "bring your truths to the table and let's see what we can add". That seems much more reasonable than trying to invalidate other's beliefs - especially when we hold them in common.

[Guest]

Hello Cynthia,

As a member of the Mormon Church who understands that it is a fraud at the core, I would hope that you would be to be careful here as a parent. At 15, your daughter is still your responsibility.

If she continues along in the Church, she will eventually have to make a choice as to what kind of Mormon she will be. We come in several distinct varieties, from "TBM" (True Believing Mormons), to "New Order", to former (or apostate).

The pressures that will eventually come to bear on her to conform to the Mormon "standards" will be tremendous. If she doe not have strong support from within her family (and it sounds as though she will not), then the chances for real family problems as she is pulled into the Church mythology are substantial.

As a lifelong member with six children, I can tell you that the Church has had a great infuence in the lives of our family. Our sons all went on missions for the Church and all of the children have been married in the temple, as have my wife and I.

As others have pointed out as one small example of the problems you will face; you will not be allowed to attend your daughter's wedding if she elects to be married in the Temple. The pressure for her to do so from within the Church, and by her peer group there, will be unrelenting.

My kids are well adjusted and well educated. However, I fear for what lies ahead for each of them as they begin to realize (as they are now starting to do) that the Church is not what it claims to be, (and not by a long shot).

I have started the process of preparing them for this realization. Given the way the Church operates, this can be a heartbreaking task for all involved.

If I had it to do over again, I probably would not have raised my kids in the Church. At the end of the day, the fairy tales they are taught and the magical thinking they learn there probably do them more harm than good.

At the very least, you should read about Mormon Church history from reliable secular sources. Much of what the Church says about itself is highly "filtered", and in many cases, just not true.

We actually have Church leaders who make public statements to the effect that "not all truth is helpful", and "faith is more important than intellect". ("Intellect" as used here is code for facts that appear contrary to Church doctrine, and examples abound.)

Foundational doctrine of the Church are likely to change without notice. Like Islam, the Church is governed as a strict theocracy.

Most of what you need to know from the secular (reality based) side is now available on the internet. And remember, "anti-Mormon" is often a Mormon code word for "reliable secular". For example, information available from the Tanner's website is well researched and reliable. The Tanners are labeled anti-Mormon by the Church.

Best Wishes to you and your daughter.

[_Seven]

But I was referring specifically to conversations about religious and spiritual beliefs. That's where my daughter's attitude has changed during her time in the LDS community.

And I don't think LDS members usually try to be open-minded about these things, as you seem to be saying here. They believe that the LDS church is the one and only true church, that LDS doctrine is the only correct doctrine. They are not open to the possibility that they might be wrong and other people, from other churches or from no church, might be right.

What did you mean about LDS members overcoming this attitude? It seems to be intrinsic to the belief-system.

Hi Loves2Sing,
Welcome to the board. Although you will find open minded active LDS here, it is not something you will find among Chapel Mormons. I was raised LDS, married in the temple, etc. and you are correct that this attitude is intrinsic to the belief system.

I agree with KimberlyAnn who posted:

I appreciate that you believe God doesn't care much about religion. Mormonism is, I think, is the antithesis of your philosophy. Joseph Smith certainly taught that God cares about what religion one joins. God cares so much, according to Mormonism, that one cannot be in the presence of God without becoming Mormon. That's why Mormons do temple work for the dead. They believe they are converting the dead, even the believing dead of other faiths, to Mormonism. Mormonism isn't "optional" if one wants to see God, at least according to the Mormons.

Even though LDS do believe other faiths have remnant truths following the great apostacy (e.g. the correct portions of the Bible, Jesus Christ, God, certain doctrines), it is always trumped by the sure knowledge that Mormonism holds the complete restored truth to salvation. There is only one path back to God in Mormon doctrine and it requires temple ordinances.

[_loves2sing]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts, DrW.

My daughter's position is an interesting one. Yes, definitely, I can see quite a few potential problems - and even some dangers - if she remains in the church, "grows her testimony" and "deepens her faith." If she tries to live as Molly-Mormon-True-Believer.

I would be sad to miss out on being present at her wedding, sad but not devastated... To me this is not a huge issue. I want her to be happy and have a rich, satisfying life. What really matters about her getting married is not the ceremony itself, but how her life plays out over time within the marriage.

I would prefer that she have lots of freedom - intellectually, emotionally, and even spiritually, freedom to grow and learn and find what is authentically her own life path. I don't think she will find this in the LDS church and community.

And yet: Fifteen months ago, she was lost, caught up in the more toxic elements of the adolescent culture, walking down a dangerous path (actually, running down it), taking many serious risks and likely to take even more. I don't exaggerate when I say that I believe I saved her life by sending her away and into treatment.

Now she has been home for about ten weeks, and she is thriving, earning straight A's at school, singing in an award-winning choral music program, spending time with many new LDS friends - time where they do wholesome, fun things together and support each other in living a positive life where they "Choose the Right."

So this involvement with the LDS faith (and world) has been incredibly good for her. So far, and for now.

You wrote:

I would hope that you would be to be careful here as a parent. At 15, your daughter is still your responsibility.

True... and I am absolutely clear that the loving thing to do here is definitely not to try and pull her out of this involvement.

This is her choice, for now. I honor her right to the choice, her right to tread her own spiritual path.

And I am deeply grateful for what this choice is giving her, for now.

Cynthia