Base matter and the Light of Christ

[_Yoda]

Gods house is a house of order, and all who would be a part of it must bear the family name.

But wouldn't you agree that if the person was worthy, but simply had not had the opportunity to be taught the signs and tokens, they would simply be taught so that they could enter into God's presence?

And, going a step further here.....If someone who, in this life, didn't fully understand the ramifications of the importance of the temple covenants, but, after death, they realized them, would God not be merciful enough to allow this person to enter into his kingdom as well? I'm talking about someone who has, in every other way, lived a valiant life. They simply either didn't know about the gospel...or if they did know about the gospel, they honestly couldn't grasp all of it.

I just think that God has a perfect understanding of our hearts. He knows us better than anyone. I don't think that he is going to shut someone out from His presence simply because they failed to understand something here. That person still has the potential to be a God or Goddess...create worlds...and be with his/her family. I don't see how a merciful God would deny someone that.

For example, take a look at someone like Ghandi or Mother Theresa. They were honest, valiant people who did a lot of good for mankind. Simply because they did not join the Mormon Church, would God deny them the opportunity to be with their families because they didn't go through the temple? I don't think so.

[_Yoda]

Mary the mother of God told the disciples that she went through a washing and annointing and a full change of clothes before she was taken into the presence of the Father to share a meal with him.

You have mentioned this before. Where is this documented?

[_Jersey Girl]

Worming my way in here...

That implies adherence to existing laws, and you don't get more spiritual than God. Think about it.

What existing laws?
What are the laws?
Where do they originate?

[_The Nehor]

Chap. XXXVI verse 4-5

4. Then the cherub took two figs and brought them to Adam and Eve. But he threw them to them from afar; for they might not come near the cherub by reason of their flesh, that could not come near the fire.

5. At first, angels trembled at the presence of Adam and were afraid of him. But now Adam trembled before the angels and was afraid of them.

Do celestialized beings feel fear?

In LDS theology, not all angels are celestialized beings.

[_harmony]

How could angels predate Adam? I was taught that angels are resurrected men who just aren't good enough for the highest sector of the CK. So how could angels predate the first man?

[_Gazelam]

You have mentioned this before. Where is this documented?

A. Wilmart and E. Tisserant, "Fragments grecs et latins de 1'évangile de Barthélemy," Revue biblique 22 (1913): 321, cited in Nibley, "The Early Christian Prayer Circle," 45, nn. 11—13; in CWHN 4:49—50, nn. 11—13.

In a new text, though, in which the apostles celebrate this ordinance after the Lord had left them, Mary tells them a story. She says she wants to take the place of Jesus at the altar. There is some discussion whether she should be allowed to do it; they had rather an argument. "Well, I will lead you out anyway, because I will tell you something," she says. She begins by calling upon God, raising her hands three times and speaking in an unknown language, a code. "El O . . . ," etc. Having finished the prayer, Mary then asks President Peter (he is called "president") to support her right hand while Andrew supports her on the other side, and then she tells them how it was at the birth of Christ. She was in the temple,

and the veil was rent before the birth of Christ, and she saw an angel [mal'ak] in the temple at the veil. He took her by the right hand, and after she had been washed and anointed and wiped off and clothed in a garment by one who hailed me as a "blessed vessel," took me by the right hand and took me through the veil. And there was bread on the altar in the temple, and he took some and he ate of it and then gave me some, and we drank wine together, and I saw the bread and wine had not diminished.197

According to this, she was married in the temple. At this point, the Lord himself appeared and forbade Mary to tell them any more: "You've told them all that you can tell them now." It was all actually very secret. Some of the apostles rebuked Mary for having told them too much anyway.

[_Gazelam]

How could angels predate Adam? I was taught that angels are resurrected men who just aren't good enough for the highest sector of the CK. So how could angels predate the first man?

Harmony,

Im sorry I haven't responded to your earlier comments, hopefully tommorow. In answer to this one, who was it that came to see Adam after the Fall? Who came and taught him?

[_Gazelam]

What existing laws?
What are the laws?
Where do they originate?

It is a doctrine of the church that elements are eternal. This world was created out of eternaly existing matter. This material had to first be purified, melted down and prepared, but it was not created out of nothing.

Similarly, our spirits are eternal. We ourselves were organized by our Father in heaven. There exists eternal conditions. It is a simple concept to understand that fire is hot, ice is cold, water is wet. These are elemental properties, and they are self existing. God understands all of these conditions, and the potential outcome of all dealings with these conditions. He has all knowledge of things as they were, as they are, and as they are to come.

Laws did not originate, they simply are.

[_Yoda]

A. Wilmart and E. Tisserant, "Fragments grecs et latins de 1'évangile de Barthélemy," Revue biblique 22 (1913): 321, cited in Nibley, "The Early Christian Prayer Circle," 45, nn. 11—13; in CWHN 4:49—50, nn. 11—13.

Gaz, I think you need to be careful with quoting information from this source. It is opinion, and not official LDS doctrine.

This leads into the whole God the Father had sex with Mary concept, which I have a problem with.

My husband, by the way, is on board with your line of thinking on the matter.

Since this subject is an offshoot, I might start my own thread about my thoughts on this topic.

[_Gazelam]

Liz,

Gaz, I think you need to be careful with quoting information from this source. It is opinion, and not official LDS doctrine.

Actually it is lost scripture rediscovered and translated, merely cited by Nibley. Not opinion.

Sounds like your husband is a wise man

Also in relation to your earlier question regarding the salvation of righteous but unordained souls. Let me answer your question with a question: Why was Christ baptised?