Restoration of the sealing keys for marriage?

[_zzyzx]

Were the keys for sealing in Celestial marriage returned to the earth by the visit of Elijah at the Kirtland Temple? Or, did Joseph have them alreay as a part of the restoration of the Priesthood and Elijahs visit was only to push Genealogy somehow?

In other words, how could Joseph marry a few babes before the Sealing Keys were restored?

(even though they were here in the form of John the Beloved and The Three Nephites all along)

[_harmony]

In other words, how could Joseph marry a few babes before the Sealing Keys were restored?

That's a good question. Right up there with... how could Joseph start the church prior the restoration of the Melch priesthood, which carries the proper authority to do things like that.

Let's just say.. .Joseph was an impetuous kinda guy who often got the cart before the horse... and then had to backtrack and do some major backfilling.

[_zzyzx]

This topic came up this morning in Sunday School and I asked two questions.

First, if Elijah restored the sealing keys how did Joseph Smith marry more than one wife before that time.

Second, If the sealing keys were part of all dispensations, did King David, Solomon and so many others have Concubines sealed to them just like plural wives?

Caused some problems in the class as one said I shouldn't be asking these kinds of questions. Another asked 'Is this pertanant to your salvation" and got pissed when I responded "a man is only saved as fast as he gains knowledge".

Another said 'I don't like history' and then did the testimony 'beyond a shadow of doubt' on Monson, Joseph Smith, etc.

I asked why I should have to find out information from Sandra and Gerald Tanner and others rather than be able to ask these questions at Church. Got the 'the brethren can't answer all the questions or they would have no time for anything else' line. Another with 'stick to the lesson manual'. Then another said 'I don't use the manual because it is too sanitized' and it went downhill from there for a bit.

The question still remains though as no one seems to know the answer. Just what 'authority' did Elijah give to Joseph Smith... per actual LDS teachings these days?(as compared to during Joseph Smiths time)

[_harmony]

This topic came up this morning in Sunday School and I asked two questions.

First, if Elijah restored the sealing keys how did Joseph Smith marry more than one wife before that time.

Second, If the sealing keys were part of all dispensations, did King David, Solomon and so many others have Concubines sealed to them just like plural wives?

Caused some problems in the class as one said I shouldn't be asking these kinds of questions. Another asked 'Is this pertanant to your salvation" and got pissed when I responded "a man is only saved as fast as he gains knowledge".

Another said 'I don't like history' and then did the testimony 'beyond a shadow of doubt' on Monson, Joseph Smith, etc.

I asked why I should have to find out information from Sandra and Gerald Tanner and others rather than be able to ask these questions at Church. Got the 'the brethren can't answer all the questions or they would have no time for anything else' line. Another with 'stick to the lesson manual'. Then another said 'I don't use the manual because it is too sanitized' and it went downhill from there for a bit.

The question still remains though as no one seems to know the answer. Just what 'authority' did Elijah give to Joseph Smith... per actual LDS teachings these days?(as compared to during Joseph Smiths time)

Well, you certainly put the cat amongst the pigeons, didn't you?

[_moksha]

For what it is worth Zzzyzx, in most allegory the unexplained is either not to essential to the plot or else invites the reader to find meaning by through their own interpretation.

[_harmony]

For what it is worth Zzzyzx, in most allegory the unexplained is either not to essential to the plot or else invites the reader to find meaning by through their own interpretation.

Let there be no confusion. In LDS doctrine, there is no allegory, Moksha. Everything is literally what it says it is. No myth, no metaphor, no allegory. The literal truth of all things. Which really makes it hard for those of us who understand the importance of myth, metaphor, and allegory... and the harm that a literal interpretation causes.

[_zzyzx]

The real problem is a simple one. Where does one ask serious questions about 'Gospel Topics', Church history and the like?

If you can't ask in Sunday School(with longer time members, not new folk with no background and as yet limited knowledge) and Priesthood meetings... where do you ask?

Gerald and Sandra Tanner? They are more forthcoming and honest than most I know in LDS leadership. Agreeing with their view does not matter, just the search for truth. I have had some nice talks with Sandra and even had her admit mistakes and some things that she had wrong. Seldom see that in LDS circles. I find her information more accurate than most current LDS teaching manuals. I just don't' think I should have to go to her(and her now deceased husbands publications) for information I should easily get at Church from those 'who know'.

I even asked the Stake High councilman visiting who the Lamanites were now. He said it didn't really matter and they weren't important. Funny that Spencer Kimball and Joseph Smith knew who they were, thought they were important and taught that as fact and revelation.

Almost enough to get one to walk out and go fishing every Sunday. If we weren't in a heavily LDS environment I would do so. But... retirement is a short time away and leaving now would jeopardize it big time. We still have to live in the society we are stuck in. Lucky for us we already have the new retirement place set, being paid for and will go there when the money is locked in 100%. Until then we sit and play the game. At least somewhat.

[_The Nehor]

Almost enough to get one to walk out and go fishing every Sunday. If we weren't in a heavily LDS environment I would do so. But... retirement is a short time away and leaving now would jeopardize it big time. We still have to live in the society we are stuck in. Lucky for us we already have the new retirement place set, being paid for and will go there when the money is locked in 100%. Until then we sit and play the game. At least somewhat.

Wait....what?

[_mormonmessages]

Look Brother zzyzx,

You have lost sight of the number one ideal in all things LDS.

Joseph Smith was a true prophet of God.

Wait, since he was the only "prophet" at that time, he was THE prophet of God on earth.

Therefore, it matters NOT what he did because he was ordained of God.

The most important tenant of LDS theology is first and foremost, before worshiping Christ himself, is gaining a personal spiritual confirmation that Joseph Smith was the first prophet after the "apostasy".

If you do not believe in the divinity of Smith you will most likely worship God and Jesus incorrectly and with ZERO authority.

The only way to Jesus Christ in the LDS faith is through Joseph Smith.

Once you regain your belief/testimony in the divinity of Smith, NONE of these concerns will matter, no matter how heinous or bizarre.

[_The Nehor]

You have lost sight of the number one ideal in all things LDS.

Joseph Smith was a true prophet of God.

Uhhhh....no. Not number one ideal thing...whatever that means.

Wait, since he was the only "prophet" at that time, he was THE prophet of God on earth.

True.

Therefore, it matters NOT what he did because he was ordained of God.

False.

The most important tenant of LDS theology is first and foremost, before worshiping Christ himself, is gaining a personal spiritual confirmation that Joseph Smith was the first prophet after the "apostasy".

No, worship/love of the Father is first and foremost. The first and greatest commandment.

If you do not believe in the divinity of Smith you will most likely worship God and Jesus incorrectly and with ZERO authority.

When did Joseph become divine?

The only way to Jesus Christ in the LDS faith is through Joseph Smith.

LOL

Once you regain your belief/testimony in the divinity of Smith, NONE of these concerns will matter, no matter how heinous or bizarre.

I have no belief or testimony in the divinity of Joseph; am I on the fast track to apostasy?