The Virgin Birth

The upper-crust forum for scholarly, polite, and respectful discussions only. Heavily moderated. Rated G.
_bcspace
_Emeritus
Posts: 18534
Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2006 6:48 pm

Re: The Virgin Birth

Post by _bcspace »

Honestly, this causes all kinds of problems for me. First of all, this means that God the Father has not only entered into a plural marriage situation....but an incestuous plural marriage situation. He has married, and had sex with...his daughter.

What absolutely blows my mind is that Gaz, who I consider to be a good, decent, upstanding person, and faithful Latter-Day Saint, has absolutely no problem with this concept whatsoever.

My husband doesn't, either. It basically is shelved under the "God's laws are not our laws, and it is something we will understand later."


I don't see why this would be a problem. After all, there is precendent with Adam and Eve and their children. Did Adam have relations only with his wife? I doubt it. And their children would have had relations with each other. Even Abraham married his half sister.
Machina Sublime
Satan's Plan Deconstructed.
Your Best Resource On Joseph Smith's Polygamy.
Conservatism is the Gospel of Christ and the Plan of Salvation in Action.
The Degeneracy Of Progressivism.
_bcspace
_Emeritus
Posts: 18534
Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2006 6:48 pm

Re: The Virgin Birth

Post by _bcspace »

Spirit matter has no DNA.


What makes you say that? If the spirit looks like the physical body (think Ether 3), then why would there not be a correspondence even down to the atomic level?
Machina Sublime
Satan's Plan Deconstructed.
Your Best Resource On Joseph Smith's Polygamy.
Conservatism is the Gospel of Christ and the Plan of Salvation in Action.
The Degeneracy Of Progressivism.
_Yoda

Re: The Virgin Birth

Post by _Yoda »

bcspace wrote:
Honestly, this causes all kinds of problems for me. First of all, this means that God the Father has not only entered into a plural marriage situation....but an incestuous plural marriage situation. He has married, and had sex with...his daughter.

What absolutely blows my mind is that Gaz, who I consider to be a good, decent, upstanding person, and faithful Latter-Day Saint, has absolutely no problem with this concept whatsoever.

My husband doesn't, either. It basically is shelved under the "God's laws are not our laws, and it is something we will understand later."


I don't see why this would be a problem. After all, there is precendent with Adam and Eve and their children. Did Adam have relations only with his wife? I doubt it. And their children would have had relations with each other. Even Abraham married his half sister.


So incest isn't a problem for you?
_Yoda

Re: The Virgin Birth

Post by _Yoda »

bcspace wrote:
Spirit matter has no DNA.


What makes you say that? If the spirit looks like the physical body (think Ether 3), then why would there not be a correspondence even down to the atomic level?


Which would also speak to my point that if these scriptures have been misinterpreted, and Mary's status as "virgin" simply meant "young woman", Jesus most certainly could have been the physical son of Mary and Joseph....with Jesus still being able to have received special attributes to perform his duties as the Messiah given to him through God the Father's spiritual DNA.
_BobAliceEve
_Emeritus
Posts: 18
Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2009 1:34 am

Re: The Virgin Birth

Post by _BobAliceEve »

What makes you say that? If the spirit looks like the physical body (think Ether 3), then why would there not be a correspondence even down to the atomic level?


In light of your question I will clarify by saying "Physical body DNA from Father is the difference". Physical-body DNA is made of billions of atoms (quarks, etc) of solid matter. If there is spirit-body DNA then it is made up of billions of units of what ever spirit matter is made of - but they are not the same else there would be not need for us to gain a physical body.

Further regarding appearance, I can make a statue of rock that is in the perfect image ("looks like") a human body. There are robots with elastic bodies that are in the image of humans. No DNA in either and none required. Having DNA is a completely mortal (and probably resurrected) characteristic.

Regardless of the composition of spirit bodies from Father's DNA Christ had:
3) the ability to die by choice
2) the ability to resurrect himself
1) the ability to be sinless

No mortal has any one of those abilities.

I thank you for the opportunity to clarify. I hope to continue this conversation as is useful.
_harmony
_Emeritus
Posts: 18195
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 1:35 am

Re: The Virgin Birth

Post by _harmony »

BobAliceEve wrote:DNA.

Spirit matter has no DNA.


If we don't know what spirit matter is, we sure as heck don't know if it has DNA or not.

We are spirit children of Father.


That's what they say. Just because they say it doesn't mean it's so.

He formed (not birthed) our spirit bodies (may not even require a Mother?) of existing spirit matter.


You don't know that for sure either. But way to sideline the females of the species without ever dropping a reference or a scripture. We always knew we were useless, but now you've proved it. :rolleyes:

Christ is a completely mortal offspring (through Mary's and Father's unique DNA) and is "The Only Begotten of the Father in the flesh". However, he is much more!!


Have you been listening? It appears your theory just got busted, since the lineage has to come through JOSEPH, not Mary, in order for the prophecy to be fulfilled.

The more is that:
3) he had the ability to die by choice


So does everyone else. It's called suicide.

2) he had the ability to resurrect himself


Or to have God do the heavy lifting. And this is something we will all do, if our scriptures are correct.

1) he had the ability to be sinless


So does every child. And I think you'll find that "sinless" isn't exactly... sinless.


No other mortal has any of those qualities.


Try again, especially with 3.

If I missed your point or did not communicate my understanding effectively then I will gladly try again. I thank you for your question.


It might help if you had some foundation, some references, some scriptures to support your post.
(Nevo, Jan 23) And the Melchizedek Priesthood may not have been restored until the summer of 1830, several months after the organization of the Church.
_bcspace
_Emeritus
Posts: 18534
Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2006 6:48 pm

Re: The Virgin Birth

Post by _bcspace »

I don't see why this would be a problem. After all, there is precendent with Adam and Eve and their children. Did Adam have relations only with his wife? I doubt it. And their children would have had relations with each other. Even Abraham married his half sister.

So incest isn't a problem for you?


Not in those contexts, no.
Machina Sublime
Satan's Plan Deconstructed.
Your Best Resource On Joseph Smith's Polygamy.
Conservatism is the Gospel of Christ and the Plan of Salvation in Action.
The Degeneracy Of Progressivism.
_Paracelsus
_Emeritus
Posts: 503
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 9:29 am

Re: The Virgin Birth

Post by _Paracelsus »

I will reread "Little Red Cap" (Rotkäppchen, Le Petit Chaperon Rouge).

Then I want evaluate the story.
My viewpoints:
1. DNA of the wolf
2. Police records of the girl
3. Police records of the Grimms
4. Parallels with Fanny Alger & Joseph Smith
5. Parallels with Martha & Hugh Nibley
6. Possible other variations
- the wolf is a vegetarian and the girl a lesbian
- the girl seduces the wolf
- the girl shoots the wolf with a revolver
- a rambunctious grandmother eats up everyone
- take your own ideas

Or should I remain on topic and handle another tale? :evil:
I know of nothing poorer
Under the sun, than you, you Gods!
...
Should I honour you? Why?

Johann Wolfgang von Goethe : Prometheus
_Yoda

Re: The Virgin Birth

Post by _Yoda »

bcspace wrote:I don't see why this would be a problem. After all, there is precendent with Adam and Eve and their children. Did Adam have relations only with his wife? I doubt it. And their children would have had relations with each other. Even Abraham married his half sister.


Liz wrote: Incest isn't a problem for you?


BC wrote:Not in those contexts, no.


Well, then I suppose we are at an impasse, and have nothing further to discuss.
_Yoda

Re: The Virgin Birth

Post by _Yoda »

Paracelsus wrote:

Or should I remain on topic and handle another tale? :evil:


I would prefer you stay on topic for this thread, but your analysis sounds fascinating. It deserves a thread of it's own. :wink:
Post Reply