The "Official" Witnesses Trailer Drops

[Kishkumen]

sure, I can agree with that. But I don't think the filmmakers will have achieved anything that Kim Il-sung didn't in his epic, Unsung Heroes. I could be wrong, we'll see after I've had a chance to view the film in its entirety.

I don't understand why they would need to achieve anything more than that. Propaganda is propaganda. It can be propaganda for a corporation, a state, a dictator, or a church. What interests me is that it is the propaganda of the group I grew up in, and it is really remarkable that such a project came together. North Korean propaganda is fascinating, and Mormon propaganda is both fascinating and directly relevant to my past and present experience.

As time has passed, I've changed my mind on what will be the greatest problem of this film. At present, I think the greatest problem will be the thematic instability of faithful witnesses testifying. In the longer excerpts made available a while back, the general credibility of the protagonists seemed derived from scenes where they were validated in some way by antagonists. In other words, the subtext of the movie is that credibility comes from witnesses who are unrelated to each other, and who don't have a vested interest in what they're confirming as true.

Interesting. I would love to see you unpack that bit further. I have not scrutinized the trailer as penetratingly as you have.

I don't think the witnesses have much value at all as witnesses of ancient plates that actually existed. That is so glaringly obvious that nothing, including this film, can rescue the claim from risibility. They didn't even write their own witness statements. Those statements were written for them. The witnesses were simply talked into signing their names on the dotted line, and probably did so as much because it was a lot more interesting and fun to participate in this drama than it was to plow fields and chop down trees. Don't get me wrong: there are many ways in which the witnesses are interesting, but their witness has no probative value on the existence of ancient plates or Hebrew civilizations in Ancient America.

Still, the film will be a lot of fun to watch, just as many other cultural curiosities are fun and interesting. I love the fact that the Osmonds made an album about Kolob. I don't think it is very good, but the mere fact of this thing's existence blows my mind and makes me a little happier. Similarly, the witnesses film is just plain fun. It can't hope to be historically accurate, and it does nothing to grant credibility to the witnesses or their statements, but to me all that is beside the point.

[Doctor Scratch]

An intriguing update from the "Witnesses" Executive Producer:

Incidentally, it probably needs to be said once again: Certain critics assiduously cultivate the falsehood that I have been, or will be, lining my pockets with the cash that Witnesses may bring in. This is, as I’ve pointed out many times before, flatly untrue. There is no expectation on my part or on anybody else’s part that I will earn a penny of profit from Witnesses. There is nothing in any of the contract documents related to the project that promises or permits me any financial interest in the success of the film. No money will accrue to me from the movie — neither directly nor indirectly. (Nor — I know how certain critics’ minds work! — to my wife, my children, my grandchildren, my cousins, my present or future pets, my estate, my heirs and assigns, my neighbors, or any shell company or secret bank account in the Cayman Islands. Neither in cash nor in kind nor in gold bullion nor in doubloons nor in Swiss francs nor in bitcoin nor in corvée labor.) Whether the film project fails miserably or breaks even or earns $800 million, my share of the earnings will remain unchanged, at precisely $0.00.

I realize that that’s almost certainly not clear enough for certain folks, but it’s the best I can do at the moment.

Good thing that Jack is there to set things right again:

Even if it doesn't earn enough to recoup every penny of investment that went into it--it still might succeed in capturing the attention of folks who would want to support similar projects in the future. My guess is that Interpreter is likely to win either way.

Right--exactly. The profits--if there are any--will flow back to Interpreter. And guess who the President of the Interpreter Foundation happens to be? So, when DCP says "my share of the earnings will remain unchanged," what he actually means is, "my share of the earnings are 'Interpreter's' share, since I am the President."

[Lem]

An intriguing update from the "Witnesses" Executive Producer:

Incidentally, it probably needs to be said once again: Certain critics assiduously cultivate the falsehood that I have been, or will be, lining my pockets with the cash that Witnesses may bring in. This is, as I’ve pointed out many times before, flatly untrue. There is no expectation on my part or on anybody else’s part that I will earn a penny of profit from Witnesses. There is nothing in any of the contract documents related to the project that promises or permits me any financial interest in the success of the film. No money will accrue to me from the movie — neither directly nor indirectly. (Nor — I know how certain critics’ minds work! — to my wife, my children, my grandchildren, my cousins, my present or future pets, my estate, my heirs and assigns, my neighbors, or any shell company or secret bank account in the Cayman Islands. Neither in cash nor in kind nor in gold bullion nor in doubloons nor in Swiss francs nor in bitcoin nor in corvée labor.) Whether the film project fails miserably or breaks even or earns $800 million, my share of the earnings will remain unchanged, at precisely $0.00.

I realize that that’s almost certainly not clear enough for certain folks, but it’s the best I can do at the moment.

Good thing that Jack is there to set things right again:

Even if it doesn't earn enough to recoup every penny of investment that went into it--it still might succeed in capturing the attention of folks who would want to support similar projects in the future. My guess is that Interpreter is likely to win either way.

Right--exactly. The profits--if there are any--will flow back to Interpreter. And guess who the President of the Interpreter Foundation happens to be? So, when DCP says "my share of the earnings will remain unchanged," what he actually means is, "my share of the earnings are 'Interpreter's' share, since I am the President."

I agree with Peterson that the profit most likely won't go to him. But, since the Witnesses film donations were moved offsite, to a for profit LLC that is run by a lawyer specializing in LDS intellectual property, the profits will accrue to the LDS church. So, kudos to Peterson for replicating his very own tiny, teeny Ensign fund, where donated and untaxed money can now be used to make more money. I'm sure he's hoping it will go to the Interpreter, but he's been burned by the LDS church before so who knows.

[Moksha]

But, since the Witnesses film donations were moved offsite, to a for profit LLC that is run by a lawyer specializing in LDS intellectual property, the profits will accrue to the LDS church. So, kudos to Peterson for replicating his very own tiny, teeny Ensign fund, where donated and untaxed money can now be used to make more money.

Will Dr. Peterson at least receive some tithing credits if the project makes some money? "FAIR's fair" as they say at the Skyrim betting arena cage.

[Kishkumen]

I don’t understand what the big deal is. Surely the Interpreter should benefit in some way from the success of this film. At the very least its ability to pull off such a production is proven in spades. If it is genuinely entertaining, then all the more reason for people to credit Interpreter.

[kairos]

Is there a piece of paper somewhere in the archives showing the witnesses statement with each witness' own signature? i thought OC wrote the statement and signed each name on both the 3 witnesses and 8 witnesses document?

just asking

ps-the movie should have portrayed the signing event, you know "we were at the Whitmer home having a nice super and and celebrating with a little wine and Oliver asked us to sign this document he had prepared concerning the angel showing us the plates-we were excited to sign"

k