Base matter and the Light of Christ

[_Gazelam]

Liz,

I really don't know what more I can say on the subject of polygamy.

It seems that there is an abundance of evidence to show that God condones the practice, and that marriage is also the highest covenant.

With that foundational understanding it seems that the intimate relationship of marriage can indeed be expanded and magnified into something greater. I believe that in the Celestial kingdom our way of communicating and understandin gone another will b different when it is coupled with the same spirit of understanding that the Holy Ghost has through the Light of Christ.

[_RockSlider]

wrong answer

If your referencing Lilith here, Im not buying it.

Naa ... no names given or needed ... if Adam earned the right to create his own world (i.e. he was exalted in the highest level of the highest Kingdom) the only way he could have gotten here (per Joseph Smith Mormon doctrine) is if he had more than one wife. Isn't that what you seem to keep pushing on the ladies here?

[_Yoda]

Liz,

I really don't know what more I can say on the subject of polygamy.

It seems that there is an abundance of evidence to show that God condones the practice, and that marriage is also the highest covenant.

With that foundational understanding it seems that the intimate relationship of marriage can indeed be expanded and magnified into something greater. I believe that in the Celestial kingdom our way of communicating and understandin gone another will b different when it is coupled with the same spirit of understanding that the Holy Ghost has through the Light of Christ.

Actually, I can live with that as long as plural marriage is a choice and not a requirement. I don't feel that those who have willingly entered into plural marriage should have their families broken up.

I differ with Brigham Young on the idea that plural marriage MUST be entered into for exhaltation at the highest degree.

Do you see plural marriage as a choice or a requirement?

[_RockSlider]

I used to be a big proponent for polygamy. I think it was part of my elitists attitudes. Some of the proponents of old were very good at writing up beautiful discourses of how wonderful the concept was.

The human experience, as far back as any recorded history, tends to show a couple of things:

1. Many human's (historically more of a male problem, but that seems to be changing) will be unfaithful to a lifetime single mate.
2. This unfaithfulness proves to be a disastrous experience for one or more associated with the union (spouse, children, extended families etc.).

I'm sorry, I just can no longer buy the concept that somehow the engrained human trait of monogamous partners is somehow a base/mortal trait that will flip 180 degrees to some enlighten state.

Name me any other principle where a naturally feeling wrong flips to a right magically upon resurrection.

I'm embarrassed (and angry at myself) that I could not only justify BY and Joseph Smith's behaviors in this manner but hold it up as one of the most beautiful higher principles of the Gospel.

Don't even soften up any Liz!

Married 28 years last Thursday, Damn I love my wife and kids! I'm Soooooo glad I did not mess that up.

If I fell over dead tomorrow and faced God with the report - I was always a faithful husband and father, I got a feeling all the other bad will fade away.

[_AlmaBound]

translate Gaz's comments into "Baptist" for me? I'm not following what he's telling me. The post he made about eternal truths to which you replied just above?

It doesn't really translate into Baptist, unless you think that "man" is eternal right along with God.

"Eternal truths," as described, are foisted upon God by man, in this case by Joseph Smith Jr, and dictate to Him what "must be so."

The idea that "man is co-eternal with God" is neat, and certainly desirable, but the proof is in the pudding when it comes to mirroring those things that "God" might do.

If you are so inclined, I'd recommend looking into Orson Pratt's books for further "light and knowledge" regarding some specific ideas behind this thought process.

[_Yoda]

I used to be a big proponent for polygamy. I think it was part of my elitists attitudes. Some of the proponents of old were very good at writing up beautiful discourses of how wonderful the concept was.

The human experience, as far back as any recorded history, tends to show a couple of things:

1. Many human's (historically more of a male problem, but that seems to be changing) will be unfaithful to a lifetime single mate.
2. This unfaithfulness proves to be a disastrous experience for one or more associated with the union (spouse, children, extended families etc.).

I'm sorry, I just can no longer buy the concept that somehow the engrained human trait of monogamous partners is somehow a base/mortal trait that will flip 180 degrees to some enlighten state.

Name me any other principle where a naturally feeling wrong flips to a right magically upon resurrection.

I'm embarrassed (and angry at myself) that I could not only justify BY and Joseph Smith's behaviors in this manner but hold it up as one of the most beautiful higher principles of the Gospel.

Don't even soften up any Liz!

Married 28 years last Thursday, Damn I love my wife and kids! I'm Soooooo glad I did not mess that up.

If I fell over dead tomorrow and faced God with the report - I was always a faithful husband and father, I got a feeling all the other bad will fade away.

You are a good man, Rockslider!

Actually, I believe that Gaz is a very good man, too. We just differ on this issue, and have, for a very long time. We're still buddies, though.

My view of polygamy is a little different. I'll relate a story I related on FAIR/MAD several years ago, which will probably help put things in perspective.

One of my very best friends, Barbie, was killed in a car crash. Her husband, Ty, and her daughter, a baby at the time, survived the crash.

Ty later remarried. I was actually quite reluctant when I had heard that Ty had remarried, because Barbie and I had had many talks about plural marriage, and she had expressed feelings that she didn't feel that she could ever share her future husband with another woman.

Barbie's daughter is now 17. Ty's second wife, who has basically raised her, did something very special. She put together a collage of pictures of Barbie....wedding pictures of Barbie and Ty...and gift wrapped Barbie's wedding dress....presenting it to this daughter. She wanted her to know about her mother.

That act, to me, showed a very unselfish type of love.

Somehow, I have always felt that if any family unit could work out an eternal plural marriage, it would be this particular situation.

I don't have a problem with these types of situations. I just think that they are the exception rather than the rule.

I don't believe that a kind and loving God would make plural marriage a requirement for his children to receive the highest degree of Celestial glory.

For some special circumstances, I think it is possible for it to work.....but I think that the ideal Celestial partnership would be a monogamous one.

[_RockSlider]

...

That is a good example. Thanks for that.

One would have to hope for a higher light/knowledge being able to soften the natural pain in sharing types of deal in a case like this.

But maybe there are other possibilities, like the honorable mother that has passed is already hooked back up with someone else worthy of her, and they are happy as can be.

Making for a happy/comfortable situation all the way around when all are rejoined.

[_harmony]

I have a similiar, yet exactly opposite, situation, Liz. My brother-in-law was killed in a tragic accident a little over a year after he was married to my sister in law, married in the temple. They had a baby who was 3 months old at the time.

Fast forward 5 years. My sister in law married again, to a good LDS man. They could not be married in the temple. They went on to have 6 more children, all girls. The girls are not sealed to their father; she is not sealed to her husband of over 30 years. She is not allowed to be sealed to her husband of 30 years.

Had she been the one who died, my BIL could have been sealed to someone else immediately and without any sort of question. But because it was my BIL who died, she cannot be sealed to anyone else, even though she's been married to him for 30 years.

God is no respector of persons, yet this situation showcases a god who IS a respector of persons. If she cannot be sealed to 2 men, why can a man be sealed to 2 (or more) women? Manmade doctrines make no sense, and this makes no sense.

That is not the mind of my God; that is a man's mind. Fair is fair, and the current situation is so far outside of fair that it's ludicrous.

[_Gazelam]

Rockslider,

Naa ... no names given or needed ... if Adam earned the right to create his own world (i.e. he was exalted in the highest level of the highest Kingdom) the only way he could have gotten here (per Joseph Smith Mormon doctrine) is if he had more than one wife. Isn't that what you seem to keep pushing on the ladies here?

It is true that Adam may receive further wives, but to my knowledge this has not happened. I have never heard of it referenced. Also you seem to be implying that you follow the Adam God doctrine, which is false. This world is the Fathers, the families here were begun by Adam, and their redemption is brought about by the Savior. Joseph Smith never taught what you are implying.

I am pushing nothing on the ladies here. We started out discussing the doctrine of the resurrection and it has branched off into a few other topics.

[_Gazelam]

Liz,

Do you see plural marriage as a choice or a requirement?

Plural marriage is a requirement for those that are asked to enter into that covenant.

Joseph Smith stated:

I hold the keys of this power in th elast days; for there is never but one on earth at a time on whom th epower and keys are conferred; and I have constantly said no man shall have but one wife at a time, unless the Lord directs otherwise. Teachings, p.324

Plural marriage is not essential to salvation or exaltation. nephi and his people were denied the power to have more than one wife and yet they gain every blessing in eternity that the Lord ever offered to any people.

Some are called to accept certain resposibilities, and some others. I have never been asked to build an Ark, or lead Israel out of Egypt, nor have I been asked to be a Bishop. What I have ben asked to do is lead my family and teach the Priests quorum. The end blessings of exaltation are the same as long as I am faithful in my calling.