Restoration of the sealing keys for marriage?

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_moksha
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Re: Restoration of the sealing keys for marriage?

Post by _moksha »

Gazelam wrote:Moksha,
Wouldn't this make for a very interesting talk at General Conference?




You mean when we get to watch the guys with sunglasses and earphones escort the speaker from the podium? Yeh, that would be interesting.


I suppose you are right. Disavowing the Divinity of Joseph Smith would make for a controversial subject. Sorry Nehor, you may have to do this in the confined area across from Temple Square.



by the way, Church Security is johnny on the spot. All that latest surveillance technology sure pays off.

.
Cry Heaven and let loose the Penguins of Peace
_harmony
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Re: Restoration of the sealing keys for marriage?

Post by _harmony »

Gazelam wrote:Joseph had requested from the Lord further understanding regarding polygamy as he studied the Old Testament. The Lord had instructed him and then commanded him to practice it before the sealing power had been restored.


CFR on the bolded part, Gaz. A canonized reference, please. Because God doesn't do things out of order.

Joseph Smith and Fanny Alger were practicing polygamy for time. They may or may not have been sealed for eternity at a later date. I do not know. I would assume that they were.


They were practicing something, that's a given.
(Nevo, Jan 23) And the Melchizedek Priesthood may not have been restored until the summer of 1830, several months after the organization of the Church.
_RockSlider
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Re: Restoration of the sealing keys for marriage?

Post by _RockSlider »

fun read!

zzyzx, so do I have this straight?

you are a near retirement age person, who disrupts an official LDS meeting (on their property, in their environment) with questions that you know can not be answered by the group, with your real intent of just stirring it up, being hurtful and nasty, assaulting things they hold dear (no matter how naïve those things might be to you) ?

You've gained my respect! NOT.
_harmony
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Re: Restoration of the sealing keys for marriage?

Post by _harmony »

RockSlider wrote:fun read!

zzyzx, so do I have this straight?

you are a near retirement age person, who disrupts an official LDS meeting (on their property, in their environment) with questions that you know can not be answered by the group, with your real intent of just stirring it up, being hurtful and nasty, assaulting things they hold dear (no matter how naïve those things might be to you) ?

You've gained my respect! NOT.


I think the problem is... the group should have been able to answer the question. Or at least discuss it.
(Nevo, Jan 23) And the Melchizedek Priesthood may not have been restored until the summer of 1830, several months after the organization of the Church.
_zzyzx
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Re: Restoration of the sealing keys for marriage?

Post by _zzyzx »

Rockhead, I ask because I want an answer. At least an intelligent discussion and not something like your post which is what I get. That and the metaphoic fingers in the ears so as not to hear an honest questions while the person keeps repeating 'I know without a shadow of a doubt Joseph was a prophet, etc., etc.'

If one can't ask questions in LDS Sunday School or LDS Priesthood meetings what is left? "The Brethren" won't address our questions. Reading older folk who did try to address some of them leaves us with problems. Believe what they said or go with the current BS that basically calls most of the early Church leaders liars. They may have been so but their words still stand, plain as day... to be read by those of us who will look.

It is a pity one has to go to Non-LDS sources for an intelligent discussion and someone actually looking into these questions.

When DID Joseph get the keys for sealing marriages? Before or after Fannie?

Were LDS practicing plural marriage even as Joseph and others claimed they did not do so?

What is reality? Is it different now than last week? Certianly it is different than that taught by Joseph Smith. It is way different than the waffling Gordon Hinckley did on television. I still wait for an explanation of his crazy statements.

You do what many of my fellow 'saints' do. I ask a question that requires thought so you automatically assume it is for the purpose of stirring things up. Heaven forbid someone with a question other than the canned pap in the manuals actually wants an answer.

Meanwhile, I wait for a resumption of public accounting every conference to us members of the monies donated to the Church. Or is that stirring things up too? The Stake audits our ward regularly to account for every penny. Why can't the leadership on high do the same for us?
Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. That way when you do criticize them you'll be a mile away and you'll have their shoes.
_RockSlider
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Re: Restoration of the sealing keys for marriage?

Post by _RockSlider »

zzyzx wrote:Rockhead, ...


I deserve that, and apologize, your post hit a raw nerve, and I posted hastily, here is what I would really like to say to you about your post.

A man named Wayne Phelps (the great-great-great grandson of WW) lived in my ward. Wayne was a hermit. He lived in an old beater Mormon church that was put out of commission many years before. He drove an old beater car. He always worn a suite which appeared to have been purchased in the 1940's. He was a brilliant thinker and a much studied Mormon mystic. Wayne was not liked, well not liked is strong ... just not accepted and definitely unknown to the members. Like mentioned Wayne appeared to be a poor hermit. I spent a lot of time with Wayne in the relief society room of that old beater church where he lived. He invited me to go with him to a basketball game one night (turns out he is an honored member of the Benson Institute if that means anything to anyone ... but that's a whole other story).

The last church meeting I ever attended was a High Priest group meeting where Wayne made a comment on a simple scripture. He said something like "It just so happens I spent 10 hours yesterday pondering this exact scripture ... he then proceeded to give an incredible interpretation of the scripture.

The quorum burst out in laughter. The high priest group leader went to the board and drew a bulls eye, and explained ... if you confine your study to what is in the instruction manual you are right here (pointing at the center of the bulls eye). If you speculate on what has been written in the manual then you are right here (pointing at the next outer ring), and if you speculate on material outside of the manual, like Wayne has done then you are way out here (pointing way off target). Ironic thing was, Wayne's "outside material" was the scripture.

I could no longer take it, I stood up, waked out and have never returned.

At this period of time, I had no concept of what CogDis was, and I could not understand the defensive, almost violent responses to others when one was trying to share with them what one had learned, even with the best of intentions (like my friend Wayne).

Over the years, I learned about CogDis and with a history of long bitter fights with my wife, I came to understand just how powerful it is. Bringing someone's CogDis to the forefront of their mind is always going to result in a bad experience for them and you.
My wife and I have found a good balance, She is never going to not believe the church is 100% correct, if approached with the contrary things are going to get ugly. So don't go there! She, on the other hand has also realized, He's never coming back (at least in this mortal life time), so she never uses guilt/pressure to get me to come back. It's a good balance, I respect her, she respects me. I believe I should also respect those that do go weekly.

for what it's worth ... right or wrong, the church instruction IS NOT OPEN for interpretation (i.e. WP story above) They do not want to hear anything different than what they have heard (over and over and over again for YEARS). Presenting them with anything that will irritate their CogDis is only going to make for hard feelings .. and you are not going to persuade them.

Depending on what level you may persist in this, you well might find yourself excommunicated for false teachings (I not sure they even x so much anymore for sexual sin ... but they will surely tag you out for this).

The fruitlessness of the effort is so FRUSTRATING, but just not worth the pain involved on all sides. Live and let live.

So, once again, I apologize for my sharp response.
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