[quote="ajax18
... I'd also be interested to see how they manage the fast offerings. ...[/quote]
7 years ago, fast offerings where keep in the ward, and given out by the bishop to the members of the ward in need. Any surplus overflowed to the stake, In my area/ward (I was the Financial clerk and so now this to be true). My ward was one of the few that had surplus ... To my knowledge a surplus overflow from a stake would be rare.
How much damage would this do?
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_RockSlider
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_RockSlider
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Re: How much damage would this do?
This is nothing unique to BYU ... Ask Evan's and Sutherland, or Jarvic
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_maklelan
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Re: How much damage would this do?
RockSlider wrote:7 years ago, fast offerings where keep in the ward, and given out by the bishop to the members of the ward in need. Any surplus overflowed to the stake, In my area/ward (I was the Financial clerk and so now this to be true). My ward was one of the few that had surplus ... To my knowledge a surplus overflow from a stake would be rare.
This is accurate. Although the moneys are deposited outside the ward level (in the states), they funds are credited to the ward, which does what it wishes with them. The stake divides up the fast offerings that are allocated it to those in need in the stake, and there are always plenty in need. I've never heard of a stake having a surplus.
Last edited by Guest on Sun Jul 26, 2009 3:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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_StructureCop
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Re: How much damage would this do?
maklelan wrote:No, I make far less than that. I've also seen what their stipends look like. You've only seen the speculation of others equally as antagonistic and cynical as ajax.
Mak, if you've seen their stipends then why don't you clear up some of the confusion here and set everyone straight?
The missing roll theory can go to hell. -- Paul Osborne
The evidence will never be compelling for either side of the argument in rational terms. -- John Clark
The evidence will never be compelling for either side of the argument in rational terms. -- John Clark
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_maklelan
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Re: How much damage would this do?
StructureCop wrote:Mak, if you've seen their stipends then why don't you clear up some of the confusion here and set everyone straight?
I went down this road with Merc a couple years ago, and I'm not doing it again. I've told you their stipends aren't inappropriate, so everyone's been set straight. If you want me to give you a number then I'm afraid I'm going to have to decline. I wasn't privy to this information lightly and I'm going to respect the privacy that the church asks for. I told Merc the same thing. If that means I'm making this in your mind then you just go ahead and think that.
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_Yoda
Re: How much damage would this do?
My in-laws served as Mission Presidents in Texas a few years ago. Everything they were compensated for made perfect sense. They certainly weren't made rich from the experience.
The Church pays for the mission home that the mission president and his wife live in. But the MP and his wife are always consistently housing and feeding new missionaries coming into the area.
Their medical expenses are covered...and since my mother in law had some health issues, which later required a knee replacement, she had a lady who helped her with cooking and cleaning.
They also received a stipend for food, which was again used to feed missionaries more than the two of them.
My in-laws worked their butts off in that calling. I don't think that any member should begrudge their compensation. Their service far exceeded any monetary compensation given by the Church.
The Church pays for the mission home that the mission president and his wife live in. But the MP and his wife are always consistently housing and feeding new missionaries coming into the area.
Their medical expenses are covered...and since my mother in law had some health issues, which later required a knee replacement, she had a lady who helped her with cooking and cleaning.
They also received a stipend for food, which was again used to feed missionaries more than the two of them.
My in-laws worked their butts off in that calling. I don't think that any member should begrudge their compensation. Their service far exceeded any monetary compensation given by the Church.
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_Inconceivable
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Re: How much damage would this do?
Maklelan,
Lets get back on track here.
Wheelchairs are not purchased with tithing money. You are understandably confusing fast offerings/humanitarian funds with tithing.
Tithing is allocated for empire building.
Another misconception you have is that the businesses purchased by the Mormon church are somehow utilized to bring greater amounts of revenue to fund benevolent purposes. This is a falacy as well.
Who chairs the boardrooms of these businesses owned by the church? What are their salaries? What are their perks? Did they fly to the last Superbowl on one of the company Learjets? I'd be interested to see the aircraft logs.
Let change gears a little bit. What is financial wealth and success? Is it owning? No, not entirely - sometimes not at all. Real wealth and success is all about the ability to control the allocation of assets to one's own benefit. A chairman and board members generally do not own a corporation outright, but they do control it. They have the power to allocate funds to purchase jets, fine company automobiles, homes, season tickets, Yachts, lavish vacations, private education for their children and friends at the best schools, furniture, the best insurance and retirement plans - all in the name of the corporation. The list of perks are literally endless (and legal too).
Who chairs Beneficial Life Insurance?
How about all the other corporations owned (but not necessarilly controlled) by the church? These are the men placed in these chairs by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.
Wouldn't you like to know who these men are?
How many houses do each of them live in, how much did each home cost and where are they located? BMW's, Mercedes, Bentleys? How many months out of the year do they spend in Hawaii? How much did tuition cost for a deadbeat son to attend Yale last year?
These are the men (and their families) that live like Gods while the quadroplegic in Uraguay is being drug around without the aid of your wheelchair.
My tithing was not allocated to buy a wheelchair. I wouldn't be posting if if had been - and you have no proof that it was - because the books are closed. No proof at all.
Lets get back on track here.
Wheelchairs are not purchased with tithing money. You are understandably confusing fast offerings/humanitarian funds with tithing.
Tithing is allocated for empire building.
Another misconception you have is that the businesses purchased by the Mormon church are somehow utilized to bring greater amounts of revenue to fund benevolent purposes. This is a falacy as well.
Who chairs the boardrooms of these businesses owned by the church? What are their salaries? What are their perks? Did they fly to the last Superbowl on one of the company Learjets? I'd be interested to see the aircraft logs.
Let change gears a little bit. What is financial wealth and success? Is it owning? No, not entirely - sometimes not at all. Real wealth and success is all about the ability to control the allocation of assets to one's own benefit. A chairman and board members generally do not own a corporation outright, but they do control it. They have the power to allocate funds to purchase jets, fine company automobiles, homes, season tickets, Yachts, lavish vacations, private education for their children and friends at the best schools, furniture, the best insurance and retirement plans - all in the name of the corporation. The list of perks are literally endless (and legal too).
Who chairs Beneficial Life Insurance?
How about all the other corporations owned (but not necessarilly controlled) by the church? These are the men placed in these chairs by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.
Wouldn't you like to know who these men are?
How many houses do each of them live in, how much did each home cost and where are they located? BMW's, Mercedes, Bentleys? How many months out of the year do they spend in Hawaii? How much did tuition cost for a deadbeat son to attend Yale last year?
These are the men (and their families) that live like Gods while the quadroplegic in Uraguay is being drug around without the aid of your wheelchair.
My tithing was not allocated to buy a wheelchair. I wouldn't be posting if if had been - and you have no proof that it was - because the books are closed. No proof at all.
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_Inconceivable
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Re: How much damage would this do?
liz3564 wrote:My in-laws served as Mission Presidents in Texas a few years ago. Everything they were compensated for made perfect sense. They certainly weren't made rich from the experience..
My in-laws worked their butts off in that calling. I don't think that any member should begrudge their compensation. Their service far exceeded any monetary compensation given by the Church.
We should clarify something else here:
The Mormon church is a lay ministry church.
What does this mean? It means that what you see from the outside are many busy bees gathering honey for the sum of the whole. MP's, SP's Bishops get no real monetary compensation for their services.
Even a BYU professor may think he's getting a little honey on the side by publishing some obscure book. This is the little money.
However, if you discover this MP is a board member of one of the church's corporations, or has a business that is awarded contracts by the church, this is the man that has learned how to open the windows of heaven.
Before Jason chimes in and cries foul, I'll also note that many in leadership are (and have been) successful businessmen without any perks from the church. I've known many of them having grown up in the wealthiest stake in the church.
However, the First Presidency, most of the Quorem of the Twelve apostles (and many of the 70) know who the elitist subset is. This will be a closely guarded secret for as long as they can get away with it.
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_maklelan
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Re: How much damage would this do?
Inconceivable wrote:My tithing was not allocated to buy a wheelchair. I wouldn't be posting if if had been - and you have no proof that it was - because the books are closed. No proof at all.
I'll not participate in this discussion if you're simply going to tell me what I am and am not allowed to now about where the money comes from. Good day.
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_Yoda
Re: How much damage would this do?
Inc wrote:What does this mean? It means that what you see from the outside are many busy bees gathering honey for the sum of the whole. MP's, SP's Bishops get no real monetary compensation for their services.
Well, the reason I made my comments were because Ajax asked a question about how much his Mission President made.
Although I don't have exact figures, since my in-laws served in that capacity, I have a fairly good idea of how Church funds were allocated to them, and for what purposes....all of which I have no problem contributing tithing to help support.