The testimony of Boyd K. Packer

[_Roger Morrison]

GAZ, thanks for Packer's monologue. If you have more such pieces of "testimony" please share them. They serve a most worthwhile purpose of revealing LDS idiocyncrasies to a waiting audience. Both in, and out of, THE Only True Church in the whole wide world...
I'm still waiting for someone/anyone to site the last sighting of "The 3 Nephites," and/or "John The Beloved,"???
Really how much can one's intelligence, reason and plain common sense be tested before they graduate from Mormon Myopia???
Roger
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[_Daniel Peterson]

And, for what it's worth, Steve Benson claims that Packer's 'witness' experience was something that occurred on his mission and had nothing to do with seeing Jesus.

Elder Packer didn't serve a mission -- not, that is, until he was already a General Authority and presided over the mission in Boston, Massachusetts. He served on a bomber in the Pacific during World War Two.

I've encountered several quite specific apostolic testimonies in my lifetime. I won't share them here.

[_Analytics]

Here are a couple specific apostolic testimonies. I find witnessing clearly, publicly, and directly much more becoming than “witnessing” either secretly or through innuendo.

Joseph Smith and Sidney Rigdon claim they saw Jesus on February 16, 1832. They said, “And now, after the many testimonies which have been given of him, this is the testimony, last of all, which we give of him: That he lives! For we saw him, even on the right hand of God; and we heard the voice bearing record that he is the Only Begotten of the Father.” (D&C 76)

On Sunday April 3 1836 after the sacrament, Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery saw Jesus. Joseph said, “I retired to the pulpit, the veils being dropped, and bowed myself, with Oliver Cowdery, in solemn and silent prayer. After rising from prayer, the following vision was opened to both of us.” He said, “We saw the Lord standing upon the breastwork of the pulpit, before us; and under his feet was a paved work of pure gold, in color like amber. His eyes were as a flame of fire; the hair of his head was white like the pure snow; his countenance shone above the brightness of the sun; and his voice was as the sound of the rushing of great waters, even the voice of Jehovah, saying: I am the first and the last; I am he who liveth, I am he who was slain; I am your advocate with the Father.” (D&C 110)

[_Roger Morrison]

Dan, you said:

I've encountered several quite specific apostolic testimonies in my lifetime. I won't share them here.

I think I understand why You might not want to "share them here." However, I cannot believe that "God" is secretive, any more than I believe he discriminates and is prejudiced with his allocations of the natural elements from which life is sustained on our planet.

I can also understand man suppressing knowledge and resources to other than his own 'tribe', thereby retaining their tribal favour and exclusivity while others could suffer, not being party to the 'monopoly'...

Very much the way of Mammon. Not--to my understanding--the way of "God" nor of the Universe... Maybe you have data re the last sighting of "The Three Nephites" or of "John The Beloved" who was allowed to wander and witness until the Second Coming. Is there really authenticity to these legends? Or are they simply folk-lore of another era? Please advise...
Roger
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[_truth dancer]

Actually there are tons of people who have an apostolic witness, for example MD's very own Nightlion.

How about Warren Jeffs?

Or Michael Travesser?

Or Yisrayl Hawkins



~td~

[_mledbetter]

The more I think about this talk the more I dislike it. Obsufation? Yep? Even more so Elder Packer is disembling here. Come on. You are a SPECIAL WITNESS. In the Bible that meant you SAW Jesus or was with Him in His ministry. What did Joseph Smith say-I had a vision, I saw God, I knew and I knew God knew it and I could not deny it.

You seem to be having a problem with that word, obfuscation. Just bringing it to your attention. I hope people correct me with my grammar and mispelling if I have a chronic issue with something, so don't take it personally.

Yes, I find his talk annoyingly vague, as well. However, I felt a very distrinct 'witness' when he spoke of seeing the prophet on the elevator. So, I'm still very confused, as usual.

-Matt

[_cj1388]

While I do think that Packer is sincere in his own mind. This is the kind of stuff the perpetuates the myth that the Bretheren walk and talk with God/Jesus on a regular basis. He purposefully is vague to avoid being pined down in the future. "No, I did not say that I had seen Jesus in the flesh." Then you have not seen him in the flesh? "I didn't say that." Then you have seen him in the flesh? "I didn't say that either." Please Elder Packer - people really do base there life's decisions on you and the other Apostles counsel. Don't you feel that the saints deserve a complete straightforward answer? "It is to sacred to discuss" But, we sustain you as a special witnesses. For heavens sake you are the President of the Quorum of the 12 apostles. You hold the same mantle as Peter of old in our eyes. You accepted this calling - in fact - in this very talk you felt like you were prepared from on high. You seem to have no problem directing every other aspect of the members life. Time, money, clothing, sex, truth, etc. Yet when it comes right down to it he cannot give the membership a straightforward answer. I realize that many people will interpret his talk in many ways, but in a such an important issue as this - the testimony of the physical reality of Christ by the President of the quorum of the twelve apostles. The members who dedicate so much deserve and should demand better.

[_Paracelsus]

The more I think about this talk the more I dislike it. Obsufation? Yep? Even more so Elder Packer is disembling here. Come on. You are a SPECIAL WITNESS. In the Bible that meant you SAW Jesus or was with Him in His ministry. What did Joseph Smith say-I had a vision, I saw God, I knew and I knew God knew it and I could not deny it.

You seem to be having a problem with that word, obfuscation. Just bringing it to your attention. I hope people correct me with my grammar and mispelling if I have a chronic issue with something, so don't take it personally.

Yes, I find his talk annoyingly vague, as well. However, I felt a very distrinct 'witness' when he spoke of seeing the prophet on the elevator. So, I'm still very confused, as usual.

-Matt

For example that underlined word should be misspelling with double "S".
The case of hanging the hangman.

[_mledbetter]

For example that underlined word should be misspelling with double "S".
The case of hanging the hangman.

Miss Pelling? I don't know a Miss Pelling! It's the simple words that get me. Thanks. :-)
I'm no hangman. I just saw that he continued to misspell that word in a few threads in different variations.
I never heard the word, obfuscation, until I started programming .Net and we had to use a tool called the Dotfuscator, which is a code obfuscation tool used to scramble your .Net assemblies to make it more difficult for people to read or tamper with your code once it's compiled and released into the community. It's a word that sticks in my mind, so that's why I caught that. Otherwise, my communication skills are horrible, so I'm being quite sincere when I say that I appreciate people pointing out my errors.

Thanks,
Matt

[_Yoda]

Bumping for further discussion...ties into a couple of threads in Terrestrial.