2nd Watson Letter just found!'

[_beastie]

Brent just added some new information (in response to DCP's speculation about a new unknown circulating text as the original source for both the Ogden fax and the EoM):

Really?

In what possible way would this "make complete sense" to you given your report of Mike Watson's contrition on ZLMB in 2001:

Daniel Peterson 1
ZLMB Community Member
Posts: 195
(8/29/01 5:50:16 pm)

I'm a bit fuzzy on the details, but I remember when this letter first came to the attention of the dishonest mercenary hacks and pseudoscholars at FARMS, of whom I am one.

We contacted Michael Watson and the First Presidency's office, and, as I recall, Brother Watson said "Ooops!"

It shouldn't be taken seriously, though I have no doubt that many will take it as canonical.

[Bold red emphasis added.]

Daniel Peterson 1
ZLMB Community Member
Posts: 205
(8/29/01 10:27:29 pm)

As I say, I'm fuzzy on the details. I would have to ask some of the others who were involved to be sure. But, as I remember, Brother Watson said that he had simply dashed the letter off without really giving the issue much thought, simply because he had never really considered the matter and didn't think there was much dispute about it.

It was also probably around that time that I had a surprising conversation with a general authority -- not a high ranking one, but certainly higher ranking than Michael Watson (who is not, in and of himself, a general authority at all) -- who was then serving in the area presidency in Mexico. He is dead now, but was surely among the most conservative of the Brethren in just about every regard imaginable. So I was very surprised when he commented, offhandedly, that he had been down jeeping around on the flanks of the Hill Cumorah just the previous week. (This was about the time of October conference.) I asked WHERE. He said, "Down near Veracruz." Astonished, I said, "You mean, YOU think that the Nephite Cumorah was in Mexico?" "Sure," he said. "It's the only place that fits all the facts."

I agree.

The First Presidency certainly doesn't need FARMS approval for their statements. But their secretary perhaps needed to be clued in on the real issues somewhat before he wrote a letter expressing the long-standing, commonsensical, but probably incorrect idea that the location of the final Nephite battle was in modern-day New York state. The Church does not have, and never has had, an official position on the matter. Believe me, if FARMS were routinely contradicting an official stand of the Church, we would have heard about it by now.

Edited by: Daniel Peterson 1 at: 9/1/01 9:44:04 am

[Bold red emphasis added.]

[_Ray A]

I think Brent just blew the lid on the whole thing.

[_beastie]

So what is DCP trying to hide or minimize, exactly? That critics have been right all along and that the apologists are influencing the brethren?

[_dblagent007]

DCP's latest contrivance about the FP having an earlier source document follows the standard apologetic modus operandi perfectly - make up something plausible that cannot be disproven even though the actual evidence points to a different conclusion. Judging by the frequency with which it is deployed, this technique must be second nature to most apologists - areas like the Book of Abraham, DNA, Book of Mormon anachronisms, Melchizedek priesthood restoration, etc., etc., and etc.

[_harmony]

Brent's gonna get himself thrown off MAD, sure as shootin'. He's backing Dan into a corner and Juliann won't stand for that.

[_beastie]

What new pooh-ball can DCP throw at Brent this time? Maybe bring up Brent's past association with Mark Hofmann?

[_Ray A]

In view of DCP's ZLMB post, This is now going to be somewhat problematic:

Which, if (as seems likely) it indicates the use of a standard-language response on this issue by the Office of the First Presidency at that point in 1993, certainly doesn't lessen the force of the letter that Professor Hamblin cited in his excellent JBMS article, but, if anything, strengthens it. And, moreover, the apparent fact that this was a standard-language response seems to render the claim, by some of the more fevered residents of the Compound, that Bill somehow "bullied" the First Presidency into caving in to the FARMS position, rather less plausible.

(Emphasis added)

[_beastie]

You know, maybe there is a god after all, and he's rewarding exmormons for being very, very good.

[_Ray A]

You know, maybe there is a god after all, and he's rewarding exmormons for being very, very good.

Or perhaps apologists for being baaaaaad.

[_Doctor Scratch]

So what is DCP trying to hide or minimize, exactly? That critics have been right all along and that the apologists are influencing the brethren?

Given Brent's post, (and DCP's downplaying of Tom's mention of the Eom), that must be it. I bet the timeline went something like this:

---The Tanners publish the 1st Watson Letter.
---Furious, the apologists contact both Michael Watson and the First Presidency to complain about this. Watson, per DCP, says, "Whoops!"
---The Brethren want nothing more to do with this whole affair, as they realize it will make the Church look bad. DCP, Hamblin, and others at FARMS are ordered to fix the problem.
---Putting their heads together, the apologists decide that they will include an entry in the EoM (the publication of which is still a ways off) that corrects the problem, and Elders Oaks and Maxwell---friends to FARMS---will sign off on it.
---DCP, Hamblin, & et al. tell the Brethren that they have written some "language" that will help solve this problem, and ask that the text be re-sent to them both as the 2nd Watson Letter, and in the form of the Ogden Fax. Or, conversely, the Brethren agree to have the text re-disseminated so it will seem as if they (i.e., the General Authorities) actually wrote and approved it (which they sort of do).
---Watson, as "repentance" for his blunder, writes and mails one, solitary copy of the letter to Prof. Hamblin. Meanwhile, Brent Hall, a FARMS underling, has overheard some of this stuff about a "Watson Letter," and decides to dig into this himself. Rather like LoaP or some other up-and-comer, Hall takes matters into his own hands and contacts Watson, and actually talks to him. Watson, not wanting to let the cat out of the bag, tells Hall that he has a statement, and then he has his secretary, Carla Ogen, fax the exact same text to Hall. Brent Hall, due to his meddling and snooping around where he shouldn't have been, is later "let go" by FARMS.
---The Ogden memo circulates around FARMS, but the upper-tier apologists are already in on the scam and say nothing. Meanwhile, Bill Hamblin pens his article but does not mention any "letter." Instead, he merely refers to "correspondence" with Watson.

Wow. This is great stuff. What did the Mopologists get themselves into?