Joseph Smith's used of his seer stones to find objects

[_zzyzx]

What buried or hidden treaure did Joseph ever actually find with his magic peepstone?

[_Yoda]

What buried or hidden treaure did Joseph ever actually find with his magic peepstone?

As far as I know, he didn't actually find anything. I'm not that up on the history with that. Does anyone know for sure?

[_thews]

What buried or hidden treaure did Joseph ever actually find with his magic peepstone?

As far as I know, he didn't actually find anything. I'm not that up on the history with that. Does anyone know for sure?

From FairMormon
http://en.fairmormon.org/Joseph_Smith/Seer_stones

During his tenure as a "village seer," Joseph acquired several seer stones. Joseph first used a neighbor's seer stone (probably that belonging to Palmyra seer Sally Chase, on the balance of historical evidence, though there are other possibilities) to discover the location of a brown, baby's foot-shaped stone. The vision of this stone likely occurred in about 1819–1820, and he obtained his first seer stone in about 1821–1822.[2]

Joseph then used this first stone to find a second stone (a white one).

Gardner continues,

Joseph Smith, long before golden plates complicated his position as a local seer, appears to have functioned just as Sally Chase did. Quinn reports that: "E. W. Vanderhoof [writing in 1905] remembered that his Dutch grandfather once paid Smith seventy-five cents to look into his 'whitish, glossy, and opaque' stone to locate a stolen mare. The grandfather soon 'recovered his beast, which Joe said was somewhere on the lake shore and [was] about to be run over to Canada.' Vanderhoof groused that 'anybody could have told him that, as it was invariably the way a horse thief would take to dispose of a stolen animal in those days.'"13 While Vanderhoof reported a positive result of the consultation, it is interesting that his statement includes a qualifier that has the same intent as those added by the Saunders' brothers. By the end of the century, one wouldn't want to actually credit a village seer when describing their activities. Nevertheless, it isn't the effectiveness that is important—it is the nature of the consultation. Sally Chase's clients consulted her to find things which were lost, and Joseph Smith had at least one client who did the same.

and this...

http://www.janishutchinson.com/joeoccult.html

Joseph’s Use of Peep Stones and Divining Rods

Peep stones
Joseph learned to how to use “peep stones” from his father. Joseph Smith, Sr., placing them in a hat, would receive revelation on buried treasure locations. Known as a “money-digger,” he hired out to locate these caches. An affidavit by David Stafford confirmed that “the general employment of the Smith family was money digging and fortune telling.”

Joseph, therefore, naturally followed in his father’s footsteps. Even long before he claimed to find the gold plates of the Book of Mormon through his peep stone, he was finding buried treasure and deciphering ancient writings. In one instance, according to William R. Hein, he gazed into his stone, and:

He saw Captain Kidd sailing on the Susquehanna River during a freshet, and that he buried two pots of gold and silver. He claimed he saw writing cut on the rocks in an unknown language telling where Kidd buried it, and he translated it through his peep-stone

To answer your question, I believe all Joseph Smith ever found with his magical rocks was a horse.

[_moksha]

I believe all Joseph Smith ever found with his magical rocks was a horse.

Sounds good to me. The probable rule of thumb with seer stones is that you use it or lose it, so it was wise to use it, even with little or no results. Consider it building up experience for the translating business.

[_thews]

I believe all Joseph Smith ever found with his magical rocks was a horse.

Sounds good to me. The probable rule of thumb with seer stones is that you use it or lose it, so it was wise to use it, even with little or no results. Consider it building up experience for the translating business.

If by "translating business" you mean necromancer, I agree with you.

[_xolotl]

Love the last three answers, totally irrelevant and useless. When I was a TBM I would have responded yes, he used his seer stones to find treasures or attempt to find treasures. If I recall correctly he had a reputation for being capable of using a peep stone and was hired because of that reputation, but I cannot recall of any specific circumstance where he actually found anything. He certainly attempted it though and the reputation he had should conclude that he found something at some time.

[_moksha]

Xolototl, I've got a better one than that. Poster Rameumpton on the MAD forum described the Seer Stone as being like a universal informational retrieval device, sort of a 5G network. Upon verifying the login and password from the endowment ceremony, it helped download and interweave biblical passages, phrases and 19th Century expressions into Smith's translating processes.

Perhaps Uncle Dale should place this on his website as an metaphysical cyberspace alternative theory.

[Guest]

Thought this would be interesting for those that missed this thread on the Shaken Faith syndrome:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=12324

I was reading the chapter on the Book of Abraham in SFS last night and trying to come up with a good summary. I then found this youtube video that has Mike Ash on it and he basically summarizes what he says in the book.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3w-MHv7ji0

“The single most important thing... we don’t have all the information that Joseph Smith had, based on the calculations of John Gee using standard information formulas…”

If that’s the single most important thing, how about looking at it from the other side of the coin… what do they have? They have the actual pagan papyrus Joseph Smith bought for $2400 with the map of Kirtland glued to the back and the Egyptian Alphabet and Grammar that Joseph Smith wrote himself that is being locked away from critical examination. The continued argument from silence is the absolute weakest argument stance one can take, which is to focus on what isn’t and speculate on what isn’t could be, all the while knowing they have the data and refuse to release it.

Mike Ash We know that some things were lost… some things were burned.

You know what was burned… nothing. Mike attempts to fuel the fire of rumor that the papyrus was burned… it wasn’t …they have it. This continued myth building intentionally fueling a rumor is so transparent you have to zero critical thinking skills to even attempt to make sense out of it.

Mike Ash:
“We don’t have everything that was there, and Joseph Smith didn’t understand Egyptian himself, he was using the Urim and Thummim himself to understand the Book of Abraham.”

Note the use of Urim and Thummim in the above, which to those that live in the real world translate to “Seer stones.” This is an outright lie that is constantly used on the LDS to perpetuate the myth. The Urim and Thummim are not what was used, but Joseph Smith’s seer stones found using the green stone of a known necromancer in Sally Chase. This is a fact undisputed by Fair.

http://en.fairmormon.org/Joseph_Smith/Seer_stones

During his tenure as a "village seer," Joseph acquired several seer stones. Joseph first used a neighbor's seer stone (probably that belonging to Palmyra seer Sally Chase, on the balance of historical evidence, though there are other possibilities) to discover the location of a brown, baby's foot-shaped stone. The vision of this stone likely occurred in about 1819–1820, and he obtained his first seer stone in about 1821–1822.[2]

Joseph then used this first stone to find a second stone (a white one). The second seer stone was reportedly found on the property of William Chase in 1822 as Chase described it:

In the year 1822, I was engaged in digging a well. I employed Alvin and Joseph Smith to assist me.... After digging about twenty feet below the surface of the earth, we discovered a singularly appearing stone, which excited my curiosity. I brought it to the top of the well, and as we were examining it, Joseph put it into his hat, and then his face into the top of his hat.... The next morning he came to me, and wished to obtain the stone, alleging that he could see in it; but I told him I did not wish to part with it on account of its being a curiosity, but I would lend it.[3]

And this…
http://en.fairmormon.org/Joseph_Smith/Seer_stones

How many seer stones were there?
Joseph first used a neighbor's seer stone (probably Sally Chase, on the balance of historical evidence, though there are other possibilities) to discover the location of a brown, baby's foot-shaped stone. The vision of this stone likely occurred in about 1819–1820, and he obtained his first seer stone in about 1821–1822.[6]

Joseph then used this first stone to find a second stone (a white one). The colour and sequence of obtaining these stones has often been confused,[7] and readers interested in an in-depth treatment are referred to the endnotes.[8]

Joseph would later discover at least two more seers stones in Nauvoo, on the banks of the Mississippi. These stones seem to have been collected more for their appearance, and there is little evidence of Joseph using them at that late date in his prophetic career.[9]
How were the stone(s) involved in the translation of the Book of Mormon?

There is considerable evidence that the location of the plates and Nephite interpreters (Urim and Thummim) were revealed to Joseph via his second, white seer stone. In 1859, Martin Harris recalled that "Joseph had a stone which was dug from the well of Mason Chase...It was by means of this stone he first discovered the plates."[17]

Some critics have sought to create a contradiction here, since Joseph's history reported that Moroni revealed the plates to him (Joseph Smith—History 1:34-35,42). This is an example of a false dichotomy: Moroni could easily have told Joseph about the plates and interpreters. The vision to Joseph may well have then come through the seer stone, as some of the sections of the Doctrine and Covenants (e.g., Section X) would later be revealed. One account matches this theory well:

And the conclusion about the Urim and Thummim from Fair…
http://en.fairmormon.org/Joseph_Smith/Seer_stones

Did Joseph lose the seer stone(s) and/or the Urim and Thummim?
Following the loss of the 116 pages, the Lord told Joseph:
1 NOW, behold, I say unto you, that because you delivered up those writings which you had power given unto you to translate by the means of the Urim and Thummim, into the hands of a wicked man, you have lost them.
2 And you also lost your gift at the same time, and your mind became darkened.
3 Nevertheless, it is now restored unto you again; therefore see that you are faithful and continue on unto the finishing of the remainder of the work of translation as you have begun.
4 Do not run faster or labor more than you have strength and means provided to enable you to translate; but be diligent unto the end. (D&C 10:1-4)

Mike Ash “He’s looking at the Urim and Thummim… he doesn’t have the plates in front of him.”

Again with a reference to Seer stones calling them the Urim and Thummim.
Question asked:

Question asked:
“So you accept Woolford Woodruff’s description of Joseph Smith having the Urim and Thummim with the Book of Abraham? ”

Mike Ash “I would think… Seer stone, anyhow. It makes sense… ya know, even if…”

And in the end Mike Ash comes clean and admits that Joseph Smith used his Seer Stones to translate the Book of Abraham after stating twice he used the Urim And Thummim.
To all Mormons: Do you know where Joseph Smith found the “Seer Stones” he used to translate the Book of Abraham?

Answer: Joseph Smith used the green Seer Stone owned by a known necromancer Sally Chase before Joseph Smith wrote the Book of Mormon. Joseph Smith was a necromancer and was charged before the Book of Mormon. You are being lied to by Mike Ash. There is no Urim and Thummim used in any part of the Book of Abraham, and clearly not the Book of Mormon either. Joseph Smith used his occult seer stones as noted above from Fair.

[_truth]

Not to get too far off topic by why are LDS faithful still reading the Book of Abraham when the found papyri proved Joseph Smith had not translated them correctly, regardless of the methods he claimed to have used?

[_Rambo]

Not to get too far off topic by why are LDS faithful still reading the Book of Abraham when the found papyri proved Joseph Smith had not translated them correctly, regardless of the methods he claimed to have used?

Hi truth,
I think it is because most of them don't know about this issue because they are told not to look at anti Mormon material. If they do know about it then the accept the apologists arguments.

http://maxwellinstitute.BYU.edu/publica ... chapid=168

Plus they have felt the spirit that the church is true so that's what really matters.

Would you mind sharing your story truth?