No Birth Control=Baby

[_Alter Idem]

The Church's current position on birth control is actually relatively mild...

Husband and wife are encouraged to pray and counsel together as they plan their families. Issues to consider include the physical and mental health of the mother and father and their capacity to provide the basic necessities of life for their children.

It's a shame they don't get the word out.

Get the word out? Doesn't everyone know this?

Goodness, you guys, don't any of you think that some people actually want children? Do you think they only have them if they don't use birth control?

The LDS families I know run the gamut--I know childless couples, families of one , two, three all the way up to 12 children. I have always felt that it was a personal matter and never anything else. I do think that I'm not out of the ordinary either--I'm an active, church going member so I hear the messages that are taught every Sunday. I have never heard anyone pushing LDS to have large families and making them feel they can't use birth control.

[_Redefined]

Hi alter idem,

You are right, I shouldn't care if she chooses to have a big family, but she isn't choosing to have a big family as she is choosing to do her Mormon duty. If the church didn't teach the "birth control, No No" concept, she wouldn't be having anymore babies because she would feel okay about using birth control without offending God.

"Tool of Satan" is my paraphrase for the quote boxed above in the OP.

It says Satan and his cohorts are using "nefarious propaganda [birth control, etc.] to lure people away from their primary responsibilities as wives mothers and homakers." And, birth control, etc. is "Satan's way of destroying women".
That translates as birth control being one of Satan's tools.
Tool=an instrument; the means whereby some act is accomplished;

[_Alter Idem]

Hi alter idem,

You are right, I shouldn't care if she chooses to have a big family, but she isn't choosing to have a big family as she is choosing to do her Mormon duty. If the church didn't teach the "birth control, No No" concept, she wouldn't be having anymore babies because she would feel okay about using birth control without offending God.

But see, she's NOT really doing her 'Mormon duty', except in her own mind. You know your friend, I don't. But if she thinks she cannot use birth control because the church frowns on it, she's wrong. And if she continues to have children because she thinks it's a sin to use birth control, she's misguided. However, she could be having children because she really wants a large family. I think we have to be careful about judging others by our own perceptions--there's nothing wrong with having a lot of children, it's not always a bad thing. Some parents are great--my parents had seven and my husband's parents had six and they wanted big families and were wonderful, supportive, effective, loving parents. However, I know some who grew up in a family of one or two children and their parents probably shouldn't have had any.

"Tool of Satan" is my paraphrase for the quote boxed above in the OP.

Okay, thanks for explaining. It seemed a little out of character for a church leader to call something a 'tool of satan', so that makes sense.

It says Satan and his cohorts are using "nefarious propaganda [birth control, etc.] to lure people away from their primary responsibilities as wives mothers and homakers." And, birth control, etc. is "Satan's way of destroying women".
That translates as birth control being one of Satan's tools.
Tool=an instrument; the means whereby some act is accomplished;

Well, I think the point is that the church stresses that our role as parents is one the most important parts of earth life and at the time this article was written, the 1970's, many women were foregoing marriage and motherhood for careers. I think they wanted to stress to LDS that being a parent was more important than anything else a woman could do in earth life and to willfully choose to not be a parent would be a very bad choice--in an eternal sense.

[_Redefined]

But see, she's NOT really doing her 'Mormon duty', except in her own mind. You know your friend, I don't. But if she thinks she cannot use birth control because the church frowns on it, she's wrong. And if she continues to have children because she thinks it's a sin to use birth control, she's misguided. However, she could be having children because she really wants a large family. I think we have to be careful about judging others by our own perceptions--there's nothing wrong with having a lot of children, it's not always a bad thing. Some parents are great--my parents had seven and my husband's parents had six and they wanted big families and were wonderful, supportive, effective, loving parents. However, I know some who grew up in a family of one or two children and their parents probably shouldn't have had any.

Well, you'd just have to believe that I know what I have stated about the situation. Secondly, exactly what I was saying about the "no win" situation for her as far as everything will be looked at as "her fault" or "being misguided". It's really quite sad, because the GA's can clear this up in a heartbeat by making a direct statement to explain that God desires the couple to decide whether or not to use birth control, instead of advocating that it is one of Satan's tool, and then saying, "but the individual can decide to use it or not".
The church should try it's hardest to clear up any misconceptions. Tithing too, would be a huge one. But I think the church strives for ambiguity regarding these particular topic.

[_Alter Idem]

But see, she's NOT really doing her 'Mormon duty', except in her own mind. You know your friend, I don't. But if she thinks she cannot use birth control because the church frowns on it, she's wrong. And if she continues to have children because she thinks it's a sin to use birth control, she's misguided. However, she could be having children because she really wants a large family. I think we have to be careful about judging others by our own perceptions--there's nothing wrong with having a lot of children, it's not always a bad thing. Some parents are great--my parents had seven and my husband's parents had six and they wanted big families and were wonderful, supportive, effective, loving parents. However, I know some who grew up in a family of one or two children and their parents probably shouldn't have had any.

Well, you'd just have to believe that I know what I have stated about the situation. Secondly, exactly what I was saying about the "no win" situation for her as far as everything will be looked at as "her fault" or "being misguided". It's really quite sad, because the GA's can clear this up in a heartbeat by making a direct statement to explain that God desires the couple to decide whether or not to use birth control, instead of advocating that it is one of Satan's tool, and then saying, "but the individual can decide to use it or not".
The church should try it's hardest to clear up any misconceptions. Tithing too, would be a huge one. But I think the church strives for ambiguity regarding these particular topic.

Redefined; I'm not sure why you think the church's position is 'ambiguous'--Cinepro conveniently gave you a link to the church's position--it's right there in black and white for all the world to see--it even says exactly what you wanted. I'll post it here:

Birth Control

Children are one of the greatest blessings in life, and their birth into loving and nurturing families is central to God’s purposes for humanity. When husband and wife are physically able, they have the privilege and responsibility to bring children into the world and to nurture them. The decision of how many children to have and when to have them is a private matter for the husband and wife.

The church's position is that the decision to use birth control is a private matter for husband and wife. No ambiguity here.

No LDS leader said it was a 'tool of satan', I think this statement from church leaders sums it up nicely. There is no reason for your friend to be confused on this subject. If she believes she can't use birthcontrol, it's not coming from the leadership of the church--but it may be her own feelings or the way she was raised.

But, I assure you that as an active LDS person, the majority of LDS don't consider this a problem, they have no qualms about using birth control--your friend is the exception.

If you feel you MUST speak up, then you could show her the church's position on Birth control. But, I would really caution you: Not knowing your friend and your relationship with her, I am concerned with how she will take it. She may feel you are being judgmental, invading her privacy and ruining the news she feels should be a happy occasion.

[_Yoda]

One thing I was a little confused about by your story, Redefined...and Alter Idem touches on it. Is your friend happy, or unhappy about the pregnancy? I know you said that she was run down because of her other kids, and stressed out...but is she genuinely happy about being pregnant, or having second thoughts about whether or not she can handle it?

The answers to these questions will help guide me in giving you advice with how to cope with the situation as a friend, and how it will be perceived from an LDS perspective. Thanks! :)

[_Redefined]

Liz,
It isn't as if she has said, "I'm so sad, I'm pregnant". I am just sympathizing with her position. I think people are most likely to make things work regardless of the circumstances. What I do know is that she "let go and let God's" will be done because of what the Mormon church teaches about birth control and the role of women. I fully believe, from what I know about her and her situation is that if she didn't have this thinking, she would have stopped at 3, or at least used birth control and decided for herself when an if she was ever going to have another one. And just like the generations of Mormon women that came before her in her family, "she is against birth control". I'm not just speculating. Her mom and I had a discussion, and her mom told me that this is what her grandmother and great-grandmother believed. . . as well as her mom too (whom produced 6 kids of her own), until after she divorced and realized that the error in this logic.

Now her grandmothers obviously weren't privy to "current" church doctrine.

Alter idem,
The ambiguity comes in by not directly addressing previous contradictory statements made. It was taught that birth control is a "tool of Satan". . . that is exactly what it says, but in the way they chose to word it. If I say "my friend is in the family-way", even though I didn't use the word "pregnant", that is exactly what I just said. "My friend is pregnant".

As is so typical to say about "chapel-mormon" thinking. . . it is her fault that she doesn't read the council the way an "internet-mormon" would. If the church is teaching her that the most important role she has is a mother, advocates that birth control is a "tool of Satan", and then comes out with, "it is up to the couple to decide though". . . well. . .

Apparently she takes her religion seriously enough to want to do what God desires of her. Even if that is the same God that would tell her to enter into polygamy and let her husband take another wife. She does it. . . why. . . because she is a good "Mormon" woman.

[_twinkie]

Well, she's already pregnant, so I think the best thing you can do is be supportive, and encourage her to get help with any depression issue.

[_bcspace]

The use of nonabortive birth control methods, devices, and medications is not prohibited by the Church. While they may have been on the minds of the authors of older articles mentioning the matter of birth control, I get the impression the context is largely in response to the notion of overpopulation, a popular left wing chestnut in the 70's.