Jonah wrote:If anyone has any concrete evidence that tithing money is being used, please provide the information so I can cram it down my buddy's throat.
There really is no way of knowing, since the books are closed. My guess is that Church business profits and tithing monies are commingled on this project, with no way to distinguish them because they are drawn on the same account. This separate from tithing money spiel has been used on many controversial items. Those who make up such apologetic-like stories feel safe, because they know there is no way to prove or disprove what they say.
moksha wrote:There really is no way of knowing, since the books are closed. My guess is that Church business profits and tithing monies are commingled on this project, with no way to distinguish them because they are drawn on the same account. This separate from tithing money spiel has been used on many controversial items. Those who make up such apologetic-like stories feel safe, because they know there is no way to prove or disprove what they say.
You can buy anything in this world with money, including the honor and integrity of our leaders.
(Nevo, Jan 23) And the Melchizedek Priesthood may not have been restored until the summer of 1830, several months after the organization of the Church.
Nimrod wrote:Yeah, that's what an arm of the organization (Free Masonry) from which Joseph Smith lifted most of the temple ceremony and symbols from would do. Not what LDS Inc would do.
Everything of any importance to the church is located in SLCentral, including Primary Children's Hospital. Our leaders don't feel compelled to build billion dollar shopping malls out in the mission field, that's for sure. Nor do they feel compelled to show exactly where tithing money is spent.
I wonder if the Brethren realize that the 2002 Winter Games have ended. Maybe Mitt hasn't told them yet.
Dr. Shades wrote:The Nehor: What originally bought the church-owned businesses, if not tithing money?
It was donations of all kinds that bought them, founded them, etc.
I do not think the profits of those businesses fall into the same area as tithing.
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics "I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
Jason Bourne wrote:Do you disagree? Why? All assets the Church owns are ultimately tied back to contributions from its members, whether tithing, fast offering, missionary funding etc. At some point some of these funds, most likely from tithing, was used to acquire business assets. Since money is fungible it really does not matter that the mall project is being funded from income from for profit businesses. It all ties back to member contributions. The Church produces nothing. It sells nothing to make a profit on. And further who cares? Does the fact that a massive real estate project that will primarily benefit downtown SLC to the tune of more than double the initial projects 1.5 billion or so is not being funded from tithing supposed to give us warm and fuzzies? If the Church has that kind of money to invest, or even if they are leveraging it and paying it over time, this still begs the question of whether those massive funds could be better used for other purposes.
I hear this argument endlessly and just don't buy it anymore. You can always hunt down a 'better' cause if you want to. I for one do not want the church's money to be held hostage so that no temples or meetinghouses can be built, no communications company built, no ward activity funded, and no beautification projects undertaken until everyone in the world is fed, clothed, and content. You can look at almost any charity in the world and argue that there is something 'better' they could be doing.
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics "I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
harmony wrote:You can buy anything in this world with money, including the honor and integrity of our leaders.
Not doing what Harmony says they should do proves them honorless and dripping with vice.
The voice of Harmony is the voice of God.
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics "I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
Primary Childrens Hospital is a for profit, privately owned business. It is not owned by LDS, Inc. They still beg for donations and play on past LDS ownership. They do go after folks for bills like any other corporation. They do good but are no different than most and certainly not in the same league as Shriners hospitals.
Yes, The Books are not open to inspection, at least not in the US. Trust is the watchword from Salt Lake City though it does not apply to the Stakes, wards and branches of The Church, just to Leadership in SLC. Something is very wrong with that.
"You can buy anything in this world with money".
It appears the mall falls into this catagory easily.
As far as trust in LDS Leadership goes, the surest way to lose faith in them is to do business with LDS, Inc. From BYU to Ricks college(now BYHigh in Idaho) to various LDS businesses and building projects, doing business with these folks is a lesson in paranoia and 'sharp' business practices. You learn to count your fingers any time you have shaken hands with those in charge.
"This is how INGORNAT these fools are!" - darricktevenson
Bow your head and mutter, what in hell am I doing here?
infaymos wrote: "Peterson is the defacto king ping of the Mormon Apologetic world."