Horses and the Book of Mormon

[_beastie]

I call Chapman's webpage a zombie page. It should have died long ago, but keeps coming back. It is based on either known hoaxes, as has already been pointed out, or other unsubstantiated claims. The Ica stones are obvious hoaxes, and a cursory search on the internet will provide plenty of evidence of that. The next evidence is the Otto Done picture, about which we had a detailed discussion on this thread:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=6946&st=0&sk=t&sd=a

This piece of evidence is typical for suspect claims because it is extremely difficult to even identify, much less locate. Some hazy picture in a magazine article. That's not a lot to go on. But thanks to Chris's amazing research and computer graphics, the case is closed. It is not a horse. by the way, Brant Gardner AND John Sorenson always rejected this particular piece of "evidence".

Several of his evidences are rock carvings, which are unacceptable as evidence because they are so difficult to date.

Several of his evidences are impossible to verify because the sources are not accessible or clear. But put it this way - every single piece of evidence that he provided that could be sourced and verified turned out to be fallacious. That's a pretty serious batting average.

Josh, if you are seriously interested in this topic, please read my website page on horses found here:

http://mormonmesoamerica.com/horses.htm

There is not only lack of evidence for the actual horse, in terms of remains, but there is a lack of a "horse-shaped hole", so to speak. The horse is a powerful animal that often finds its way into mythology and imagery of cultures that have the horse. Ancient Mesoamericans relied very heavily on animal imagery in their mythology, and it is unthinkable that a horse existed in Mesoamerica and did not find its way into its imagery or mythology.

[_jskains]

There is not only lack of evidence for the actual horse, in terms of remains, but there is a lack of a "horse-shaped hole", so to speak. The horse is a powerful animal that often finds its way into mythology and imagery of cultures that have the horse. Ancient Mesoamericans relied very heavily on animal imagery in their mythology, and it is unthinkable that a horse existed in Mesoamerica and did not find its way into its imagery or mythology.

Personally, however, I reject the claim of limited geography of Mesoamerica, so this path gives me little anyways.

JMS

[_beastie]

Personally, however, I reject the claim of limited geography of Mesoamerica, so this path gives me little anyways.

JMS

This doesn't help you, Josh. The same problem - not only lack of horse evidence, but lack of evidence of a horse-shaped hole - exists throughout the New World.

[_jskains]

http://www.discoverseaz.com/History/Horse.html

So there is a hole where they believe the horses to have "vanished", but I am not sure that isn't just because of lack of discoveries.

JMS

[_beastie]

http://www.discoverseaz.com/History/Horse.html

So there is a hole where they believe the horses to have "vanished", but I am not sure that isn't just because of lack of discoveries.

JMS

No informed person - and no one I've ever seen, period - would argue that there were never pre-columbian horses on the American continent. Of course they were. They went extinct approximately 11,000 years ago.

There's a reason they know when the horse went extinct. That reason is called evidence - and it doesn't exist in the New World during the Book of Mormon time frame.

[_zeezrom]

wait, these pictures are all of horses in the midwest. So is the latest apologists stand that the Nephites were in the midwest?

[_Darth J]

All of this is irrelevant.

The Book of Mormon happened in Malaysia.

You probably think I'm kidding.

[_Darth J]

All of this is irrelevant.

The Book of Mormon happened in Malaysia.

You probably think I'm kidding.

In a valiant attempt to accomodate the serious animal problems in the Book of Mormon, Sorenson (51, p. 299) has suggested that the names were mis-translated by Joseph Smith. e.g., maybe the term ‘horse’ really means ‘deer’ and maybe ‘swine’ really means ‘peccaries,’ etc. (ibid.). Well, if farm boy, Joseph Smith, had trouble translating (with divine assistance) an Egyption symbol representing an animal, then I shudder to think of errors introduced when he tried to translate esoteric religious terms from symbols. Thank heaven, Mala allows us to interpret most, if not all, terms literally. We need to have confidence in a scripture meaning what it says.

http://www.mormonlocations.com/

[_jskains]

No informed person - and no one I've ever seen, period - would argue that there were never pre-columbian horses on the American continent. Of course they were. They went extinct approximately 11,000 years ago.

There's a reason they know when the horse went extinct. That reason is called evidence - and it doesn't exist in the New World during the Book of Mormon time frame.

There is always some evidence to anything. And a person like yourself who spends time writing websites against the Church, your going to chose to always look at evidence against, and ignore possibilities for.

In the end, we all will chose what we believe and what we don't.

JMS

[_truth dancer]

Hi Josh,

Why not go and ask Brant Gardener?

I'm quite certain he will confirm the fact that there were no horses in any part of the Americas during the Book of Mormon time frame.

I think informed apologists go with the idea that horses were tapirs, or some variant of this theme.

~td~