Baptism, Book of Mormon and Bible

[Guest]

How early before the time of Christ is Baptism seen as part of the religious practices of the people? LDSinc teaches the gospel was here in every dispensation. People must have been baptized well before Christ. If so, what records are there to show it happening?

[_just me]

Right off the top of my head I am going to say that it is reasonable to see some rebirth type rituals pre-Christianity. Jesus was not the first to be labeled a God of birth-death-rebirth. That imagery and symbolism has been around for AGES. Water has long been associated with the womb or birth. You can find this type of symbolism in the myths of the world. Jonah and the Whale is an easy one off the top of my head. I think that it is fair to say that all the Flood myths symbolize a rebirth.

As a matter of fact, here is a website that shows some of the Pagan influences on Christianity. This page takes you to the baptism page. http://www.entheology.org/POCM/pagan_or ... ptism.html

But, no. I'm gonna feel safe saying that there are no recordings of people anywhere doing baptism rituals in the name of "Jesus Christ" until some time after Christianity was formed. In fact, I just realized that Jesus was not baptised in the name of "The Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost." Huh. Interesting. Why hadn't I thought of that before...

[_Malcolm]

Jews practised Baptism during the time of Moses.
The Qumran community used baptism as a cleansing ritual too,
it is a pre-christian ritual.

[_George Miller]

Jews practised Baptism during the time of Moses.
The Qumran community used baptism as a cleansing ritual too,
it is a pre-christian ritual.

Malcolm - It is true that a מקוח (Mikveh) or a ceremonial cleansing with water was practiced by the Jews and that it is historically connected with the Baptism. The form and purpose, however, of the מקוח is different enough from Baptism that it is anachronistic to say that the Jews of Moses's day performed baptism. While the Book of Mormon is clearly anachronistic on this account, Joseph Smith's concept that religion in all ages and times is connected and that it is describing the same metaphysical reality is a fascinating one that, while not historically accurate, still hold spiritual "truth".

[_Malcolm]

Jews practised Baptism during the time of Moses.
The Qumran community used baptism as a cleansing ritual too,
it is a pre-christian ritual.

Malcolm - It is true that a מקוח (Mikveh) or a ceremonial cleansing with water was practiced by the Jews and that it is historically connected with the Baptism. The form and purpose, however, of the מקוח is different enough from Baptism that it is anachronistic to say that the Jews of Moses's day performed baptism. While the Book of Mormon is clearly anachronistic on this account, Joseph Smith's concept that religion in all ages and times is connected and that it is describing the same metaphysical reality is a fascinating one that, while not historically accurate, still hold spiritual "truth".

George,
You are quite right about Mikveh being somewhat different to Baptism,
I was rushing a reply at the time.
Jews did require Immersion of anyone entering the covenant. Circumcision was required of men, and for both genders, Baptism and Sacrifice. The highest order of Baptism was for the forgiveness of sins and this was followed by an animal sacrifice, the shedding of blood. My neighbour, a Rabbi , told me that some Jews on returning to "the homeland", undergo a ritual Baptism at the start of their pilgrimage to the holy sites in Israel. Also at Yom Kippur some Orthodox Jews participate in the Mikvei to appear pure and repentant before the Lord.
We are told in Moses 6 verse 64 that Adam was baptised being " caught away by the Spirit of the Lord and was carried down into the water..."
presumably he baptised himself?

[Guest]

a

[_Joseph]

LDSinc it is and LDSinc it shall remain until the corporation is dissolved. You may not like it but the outfit is a corporation.

[Guest]

a

[_Darth J]

LDSinc it is and LDSinc it shall remain until the corporation is dissolved. You may not like it but the outfit is a corporation.

Joseph, the Corporation of the President of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is not the kind of corporation you are talking about. It is a corporation sole. Under former Utah law, a corporation sole exists expressly for the formation of a religious organization (the statute for corporations sole was repealed ). The president of the Church is not a CEO; he is a trustee-in-trust. Your observation is banal at best, let alone uninformed. Since the Church is organized under a statute that was specifically created for legally organizing a religious body, every time your refer to the Corporation of the President of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as "LDS, Inc.," your attempt to make a non-issue seem scandalous only draws attention to your not knowing what you are talking about.

[_Darth J]

LDSinc it is and LDSinc it shall remain until the corporation is dissolved. You may not like it but the outfit is a corporation.

Utah Code Section 16-7-1

Corporations sole may be formed for acquiring, holding or disposing of church or religious society property for the benefit of religion, for works of charity and for public worship, in the manner hereinafter provided.

Utah Department of Commerce

CORPORATION OF THE PRESIDENT OF THE CHURCH OF Jesus Christ OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS

Entity Number: 555534-0145

Company Type: Corporation - Sole