Pride and Mormons - where do we stand?

[_TAO]

An interesting point. And, an honest question: What is pride?

Being prideful is considered a bad thing. Yet, other forms of pride such as "taking pride in ones job" are considered a good thing. Are there multiple meanings for the same word?

Well, for me, pride is holding myself over another person. Meaning, considering myself higher than another person. Yah, when I feel it, I just go 'yuck' and I try and distance myself from the feeling as much as possible.

Yah... taking pride in ones job... it's kinda a misnomer, I agree. It should be taking responsibility in ones job or something of the like... when you take pride, it can cause more problems. Same with country... rather than have pride in one's country, one should respect one's country sorta.

But that's just my thoughts on it.

[_UnicornMan]

I have a question. A while ago, I was a Ward leader working a horrendous number of jobs for career reasons. The Stake President knew that holding down the calling was going to be challenging -- we even talked about releasing me. I decided to stay in the calling in spite of the fact we agreed it was going to be tough. I was faithful in the calling for another three years, and then got burnt out. It was just too much and it started disturbing my inner peace to be on the run all the time. I asked for a release to the SP and they took several months to release me, without telling me what was going on. This was really hard on me, and frankly, I felt it was inconsiderate to keep me in the dark -- even though I followed up a few times asking for information, or if the release had been forgotten. Meanwhile, more life pressures mounted with illness and surgeries.

I now feel reluctant to accept callings I'm not excited about, and want only a light calling. I'm about to refuse a calling they have extended to me because I'm just not interested in it. I'm also afraid it will take forever to get released when I'm in it, and I don't like to stop functioning after I take a calling. I'm considering telling the Bishop that I don't want the calling but that I would like something light than I'm interested in.

Is this pride?

[_TAO]

I have a question. A while ago, I was a Ward leader working a horrendous number of jobs for career reasons. The Stake President knew that holding down the calling was going to be challenging -- we even talked about releasing me. I decided to stay in the calling in spite of the fact we agreed it was going to be tough. I was faithful in the calling for another three years, and then got burnt out. It was just too much and it started disturbing my inner peace to be on the run all the time. I asked for a release to the SP and they took several months to release me, without telling me what was going on. This was really hard on me, and frankly, I felt it was inconsiderate to keep me in the dark -- even though I followed up a few times asking for information, or if the release had been forgotten. Meanwhile, more life pressures mounted with illness and surgeries.

I now feel reluctant to accept callings I'm not excited about, and want only a light calling. I'm about to refuse a calling they have extended to me because I'm just not interested in it. I'm also afraid it will take forever to get released when I'm in it, and I don't like to stop functioning after I take a calling. I'm considering telling the Bishop that I don't want the calling but that I would like something light than I'm interested in.

Is this pride?

I tend to not think it is pride... but truly only you can tell. Only you can tell what is pride inside of you and not sometimes, because pride sometimes likes to hide itself away from others.

I do have a question UM though... is there any way you can do less stuff in your regular life, so you can take on this higher calling? I remember President Monson writing something on it in a book he had... he had to drop his army benefits in order to serve as a bishop or something like that. I'm not sure what your situation is... but I think the church calling is something you should do. They have a really big effect on one's life, and who knows what God is planning to teach you if you choose to go forward with it.

So I'd suggest dropping other things... however, do whatever seems best to you, you may not be able to drop other things, so I don't know.

Hope I helped =).

[_ajax18]

For me it really depends on the truth. Ezra Taft Benson said, "Humility is concerned with what is right, while pride is concerned with who is right." I think he was right in this statement.

In my experience both sides of the Mormonism debate have demonstrated humility and both sides have demonstrated pride. I just try to judge things by principle, not which argument it supports. Is it pride that I maintain hope in God, justice, and an afterlife, even when the evidence weighs heavier on the side of those who would say none of it is so? I can't refute the evidence, but I choose to maintain hope. I think I can still stand on the side of humility and truth and still maintain this hope.

The problem I have with nonthinking LDS is that we refuse to admit any of the truth submitted by the other side if it doesn't support our hoped for conclusion. I think we would do better to admit and even seek for what is true but still exercise our right to maintain hope.

[_Buffalo]

have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam...Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him, but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet" (History of the Church, vol. 6, p.408-409).

"If you tell them that God made the world out of something, they will call you a fool. But I am learned, and know more than all the world put together" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p.350-352).

"...how very strange it was that an obscure boy, of a little over fourteen years of age...should be thought a character of sufficient importance to attract the attention of the great ones of the most popular sects of the day, and in a manner to create in them a spirit of the most bitter persecution and reviling. But strange or not, so it was...I have thought since that I felt much like Paul" (from Pearl of Great Price, Joseph Smith-History 1:23-24).

"God made Aaron to be the mouthpiece for the children of Israel, and He will make me be god to you in His stead...and if you don't like it, you must lump it!" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p.363).

[_UnicornMan]

I have a question. A while ago, I was a Ward leader working a horrendous number of jobs for career reasons. The Stake President knew that holding down the calling was going to be challenging -- we even talked about releasing me. I decided to stay in the calling in spite of the fact we agreed it was going to be tough. I was faithful in the calling for another three years, and then got burnt out. It was just too much and it started disturbing my inner peace to be on the run all the time. I asked for a release to the SP and they took several months to release me, without telling me what was going on. This was really hard on me, and frankly, I felt it was inconsiderate to keep me in the dark -- even though I followed up a few times asking for information, or if the release had been forgotten. Meanwhile, more life pressures mounted with illness and surgeries.

I now feel reluctant to accept callings I'm not excited about, and want only a light calling. I'm about to refuse a calling they have extended to me because I'm just not interested in it. I'm also afraid it will take forever to get released when I'm in it, and I don't like to stop functioning after I take a calling. I'm considering telling the Bishop that I don't want the calling but that I would like something light than I'm interested in.

Is this pride?

I tend to not think it is pride... but truly only you can tell. Only you can tell what is pride inside of you and not sometimes, because pride sometimes likes to hide itself away from others.

I do have a question UM though... is there any way you can do less stuff in your regular life, so you can take on this higher calling? I remember President Monson writing something on it in a book he had... he had to drop his army benefits in order to serve as a bishop or something like that. I'm not sure what your situation is... but I think the church calling is something you should do. They have a really big effect on one's life, and who knows what God is planning to teach you if you choose to go forward with it.

So I'd suggest dropping other things... however, do whatever seems best to you, you may not be able to drop other things, so I don't know.

Hope I helped =).

The things I'm doing in my "spare" time are necessary because my employer is paying for my additional schooling -- so I don't want to miss the window of opportunity.

However, really, that's only part of the story. My last experience was so negative I don't feel like taking on anything else that I might get sick of, and then find I can't get the leadership to release me. I'm VERY sensitive to that right now. So, in a way, this is partly about self-protection. If I was really interested in the calling, I would probably feel more excited about taking it on.

[_TAO]

The things I'm doing in my "spare" time are necessary because my employer is paying for my additional schooling -- so I don't want to miss the window of opportunity.

Ah, well that's a good reason then, I think. I don't know though... you might still be able to fit it in.

However, really, that's only part of the story. My last experience was so negative I don't feel like taking on anything else that I might get sick of, and then find I can't get the leadership to release me.

Hmm... have you thought about talking to them about this beforehand? They might offer some good solutions and things.

I'm VERY sensitive to that right now. So, in a way, this is partly about self-protection.

I understand. If you don't mind me asking... what was particularly negative about the last experience? Sorry, it's just in order to know what to say, I have to know a tiny bit more... you don't have to tell me if you don't want to.

If I was really interested in the calling, I would probably feel more excited about taking it on.

Yah, you seem pretty glum about it right now... think about it a bit more... pray to the Lord about it... read your patriarchal blessing... come to an understanding of what the Lord would have you do, then make your decision =).

Best Wishes,
TAO

[_moksha]

I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam...Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him, but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet" (History of the Church, vol. 6, p.408-409).

"If you tell them that God made the world out of something, they will call you a fool. But I am learned, and know more than all the world put together" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p.350-352).

"...how very strange it was that an obscure boy, of a little over fourteen years of age...should be thought a character of sufficient importance to attract the attention of the great ones of the most popular sects of the day, and in a manner to create in them a spirit of the most bitter persecution and reviling. But strange or not, so it was...I have thought since that I felt much like Paul" (from Pearl of Great Price, Joseph Smith-History 1:23-24).

"God made Aaron to be the mouthpiece for the children of Israel, and He will make me be god to you in His stead...and if you don't like it, you must lump it!" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p.363).

Admittedly these quotes do not sound good, but imagine how their tenor could be improved with some lithium.

[_UnicornMan]

When I read over those quotes, I believe they show tendencies toward pride in Joseph Smith. Unfortunately, this may well have been part of his downfall. I understand from the PBS.org documentary that Joseph Smith was eventually thrown in jail because he destroyed the Navuoo Expositor's printing press. He was brought up on charges of disturbing the peace. I wonder if this was an outgrowth of pride which led him to feel he was above the law?

He's not alone in making mistakes as a prophet though -- we know Moses made mistakes, and was shut out of the promised land by God. And Joseph Smith got chastised over and over again in the D&C. Good thing my testimony is not dependent on prophets being perfect.

[_UnicornMan]

If you don't mind me asking... what was particularly negative about the last experience? Sorry, it's just in order to know what to say, I have to know a tiny bit more... you don't have to tell me if you don't want to.

Just the ending, when it took 5 months for the Stake to release me after I cited burnout. Took the wind out of my sails.

I'm planning to talk to them about it so I can get my enthusiam back. Ask what their philosophy of releases is, and then let them know my needs if the calling becomes onerous. Thanks for the advice.