Peterson Speaks for Himself on "Anti-Mormonism"

[_Obiwan]

I've certainly heard some Mormons around the blogosphere use "creedal Christianity" in a pejorative manner, but I don't think it needs to be understood that way.

Mormons almost always, when they are being "critical" of others, it's in the same process of defending their Faith. So it's normal for tempers to flare and disrespect to go both ways in that case. Most other times however, we almost never go out of our way to be critical of others, and if we do, it's generally in a scholarly and reasonably respectful way, not anything close to what anti-mormons do toward us and our Faith.

It's amazing to me we even have to argue this thing. Mormonism and Mormons do nothing close to what anti-mormonism and anti-mormons do. We shouldn't have to be defending and explaining ourselves for it, because it's so beyond obvious.

[_MsJack]

I think you actually misunderstand then if you think that.

You're mistaken.

But I'll save my thoughts mapping out the pejorative use of "anti-Mormon" in the LDS community for a future post.

Statements of belief and general criticism is not in and of themselves "anti" that other thing.

Unless they are, and Mormonism's foundational truth claims are definitely anti-creedal-Christianity.

Sure, in a most basic technical sense yes, but not in any way close to the way anti-Mormons behave and respond in relation to Mormonism.

I'm discussing ideology, not behavior.

Thus, it's a stawman by anti-Mormons that Mormon simple existance and disbelief in other groups somehow "automatically" makes US anti that other group.

Nonsense. I've had plenty of Mormon friends---apologists, even---who have acknowledged that Mormonism's foundational doctrines are an attack on the core doctrines of the rest of the Christian world. There's nothing "anti-Mormon" about it.

We are accepting of other Christians and otherwise, anti-Mormons are not.

Depends on what you mean by "accepting."

Most other times however, we almost never go out of our way to be critical of others, and if we do, it's generally in a scholarly and reasonably respectful way, not anything close to what anti-Mormons do toward us and our Faith.

My experience has been otherwise. For example, one man came by an article that I wrote for the Patheos Mormonism portal last year and compared me and my marriage to a Mormon to Delilah and Sampson. Not very scholarly or respectful, in my opinion. Arguably sexist as well.

Mormonism and Mormons do nothing close to what anti-mormonism and anti-Mormons do.

You lost me, Obiwan. Where have I ever claimed that Mormons behave in a similar fashion to anti-Mormons?

I would say that Mormon attacks on other Christians usually manifest in more subtle, institutionalized forms.

[_MsJack]

by the way, Obiwan, question for you:

Is calling the people you disagree with "mental retards" your idea of scholarly and respectful critique?

Because I still think that was a disgusting thing to say.

[_why me]

As I began searching the Internet to find information about Mormon topics five years ago, I was amazed by the language used to decribe the Mormon church by those people who disliked the LDS church. The use of abusive language was extreme. And what amazed me was the hatred exhibited by former members and critics. For the most part, the language was inciteful against the LDS church.

I can only compare it to the nazi newspapers of the 1920's in germany as they sought to rile people up against the jews.

To my mind, this is antimormonism. It was no different than what was being printed in newspapers during the 1830s and 1840s in the surrounding communities where the Mormons were. And one must ask: what all the hatred? Why all the inciteful language against a people who seek to live the ways of god as they believe god would like them to live?

Antimormonism is alive and well on the internet where one does not have to declare one's name and post behind a veil.

[_why me]

I would say that Mormon attacks on other Christians usually manifest in more subtle, institutionalized forms.

Since Mormonism is a restorationist church, traditional christianity did feel threatened and perhaps did consider it to be an attack. Thus, the traditional protestant reaction against Mormonism. But such would be a restorationist church... basing itself on a restoration.

During all the attacks against Mormons in new york, missouri and in nauvoo, I did not read of any protestant minister calling for calm among the mobs, who were most likely very god fearing people. I do believe that if the protestant faiths would have reigned in their members and preached the topic of love among their flock, much hardship could have been avoided. Could it have been that the protestant ministers and pastors were also antimormon and considered the Mormon church the church of the devil? jAnd did nothing to control the mobs.

[_MsJack]

Since Mormonism is a restorationist church, traditional christianity did feel threatened and perhaps did consider it to be an attack. Thus, the traditional protestant reaction against Mormonism.

There's no "consider." The Mormon church has published and does publish materials that attack traditional Christian claims and beliefs.

Whether or not 19th century Protestant ministers were nice to Mormons has nothing to do with it.

And just to be clear: my feelings are that if the things we teach and believe about God are not true, then they deserve to be engaged, refuted and denounced. I see no reason why God should settle for less. Therefore, I don't have a problem with things like the First Vision on that level.

My problem comes when Mormons act like their church has never said a cross word about the beliefs of other Christians. That is patently false.

[_why me]

There's no "consider." The Mormon church has published and does publish materials that attack traditional Christian claims and beliefs.

Whether or not 19th century Protestant ministers were nice to Mormons has nothing to do with it.

And just to be clear: my feelings are that if the things we teach and believe about God are not true, then they deserve to be engaged, refuted and denounced. I see no reason why God should settle for less. Therefore, I don't have a problem with things like the First Vision on that level.

My problem comes when Mormons act like their church has never said a cross word about the beliefs of other Christians. That is patently false.

I wouldn't use the words attack. They do disagree however but such is also what a restorationist church is. It is about a restoration. And the message that Joseph Smith received about joining no church is exactly what a restorationist message would be.

However, much could have been avoided if protestant ministers would have calmed down their flock by stressing love of neighbor than by being silent when Mormons were persecuted. But the frontier was not a very tolerant place for those who were deemed to be eccentric in their beliefs: indians, catholics and of course, Mormons.

By not offering to intervene on behalf of the Mormons, the protestant ministers were guilty of complicity in the antimormonism that prevailed in the usa at that time.

Maybe I have missed it somewhere, but I do not remember Joseph Smith saying anything harsh about any particular faith in his speeches. But maybe I missed it somewhere.

[_MsJack]

I wouldn't use the words attack.

I would.

They do disagree however but such is also what a restorationist church is. It is about a restoration.

My cousin is an ordained minister of the Churches of Christ and I'm an MA candidate in American church history at a divinity school. I know what restorationism is, thanks.

You and Obiwan want to talk about the behavior of other Christians so that you can shift the subject to something you're more comfortable with, i. e. one-sided whining about Protestant treatment of Mormons. I don't. I'm talking about ideology, and it would not matter if other Christians had never done anything to Mormons but shower them in fluffy nice-nice bunnies. The Mormon church would almost certainly still be teaching that our doctrine of God is false and our creeds an abomination.

Now I would appreciate it if you would either start a new thread for your creative anti-Protestant reconstructions of Mormon history or, better yet, leave your tirades in the Terrestrial forums where they belong. This thread already has a topic.

[_Benjamin McGuire]

MsJack writes:

The Mormon church has published and does publish materials that attack traditional Christian claims and beliefs.

What exactly does this mean MsJack? I have a problem with the term "traditional Christianity", since it seems very self-serving, and rather ambiguous. It seems to me to be, actually, an empty idea. Greek Orthodox monks, in their monasteries certainly won't share your view of traditional Christian claims and beliefs. Neither will the fundamentalist congregations of snake handlers in the Ozarks. Nor would the vast majority of Catholicism - all of which will certainly claim to hold to traditional Christian claims and beliefs - even when they will deny that position to others.

The one thing that is apparent in this statement is the obvious claim that you are making that what is Mormonism is not "traditional Christian claims and beliefs". It is apparently an exclusive club defined less by what it is, than by what it is not.

Ben McGuire

[_Buffalo]

MsJack writes:

The Mormon church has published and does publish materials that attack traditional Christian claims and beliefs.

What exactly does this mean MsJack? I have a problem with the term "traditional Christianity", since it seems very self-serving, and rather ambiguous. It seems to me to be, actually, an empty idea. Greek Orthodox monks, in their monasteries certainly won't share your view of traditional Christian claims and beliefs. Neither will the fundamentalist congregations of snake handlers in the Ozarks. Nor would the vast majority of Catholicism - all of which will certainly claim to hold to traditional Christian claims and beliefs - even when they will deny that position to others.

The one thing that is apparent in this statement is the obvious claim that you are making that what is Mormonism is not "traditional Christian claims and beliefs". It is apparently an exclusive club defined less by what it is, than by what it is not.

Ben McGuire

or·though·dox
   /ˈɔrθəˌdɒks/ Show Spelled[awr-thuh-doks] Show IPA
–adjective
1.
of, pertaining to, or conforming to the approved form of any doctrine, philosophy, ideology, etc.
2.
of, pertaining to, or conforming to beliefs, attitudes, or modes of conduct that are generally approved.
3.
customary or conventional, as a means or method; established.
4.
sound or correct in opinion or doctrine, especially theological or religious doctrine.
5.
conforming to the Christian faith as represented in the creeds of the early church.
6.
( initial capital letter ) of, pertaining to, or designating the Eastern Church, especially the Greek Orthodox Church.
7.
( initial capital letter ) of, pertaining to, or characteristic of Orthodox Jews or Orthodox judaism.