The Book of Abraham: From Whence was it Derived?

[_wenglund]

In the same article, Dr. Peterson points out:

Ancient texts indicate that the idolatrous gods of Elkenah, Libnah, Mahmackrah, and Korash, described in the book of Abraham (Abr. 1:6, 13, 17; facsimile 1, figs. 5–8), truly were worshipped in the ancient world, despite the fact that the Bible makes no mention of them. 5 Furthermore, ancient texts suggest that the ensemble of four figures depicted as figure 6 of Facsimile 2 could indeed “represent this earth in its four quarters” in the ancient world, as the explanation to the facsimile in the book of Abraham says. 6 Ancient texts also support the interpretation given in the book of Abraham of figure 11 of facsimile 1 as “designed to represent the pillars of heaven, as understood by the Egyptians.” In fact, the phrase “pillars of heaven” occurs in Egyptian literature. 7 The angled lines below the lion couch in facsimile 1 are identified as “the firmament over our heads” (fig. 12), which must seem rather strange to any modern reader. It only makes sense when we realize, in light of recent research, that the lines represent the waves of the water in which the crocodile is swimming, and that one way the ancient Egyptians conceived of heaven was as “a heavenly ocean.” 8

5. See Lundquist, “Was Abraham at Ebla?” p. 232; Tvedtnes and Christensen, Ur of the Chaldeans, pp. 32–33.
6. See Rhodes, “A Translation and Commentary of the Joseph Smith Hypocephalus”; John Gee, “Notes on the Sons of Horus” (Provo: Foundation for Ancient Research and Mormon Studies, 1991). See also Apocalypse of Abraham 18, OTP, 1:698.
7. See, for example, Adriaan de Buck, The Egyptian Coffin Texts, 7 vols. (Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 1935–61), 61 I 263; Adriaan de Buck, Egyptian Reading Book (Leiden: Nederlands Instituut voor het Nabije Oosten, 1963), 53.15, 57.10; Dieter Arnold, “Pfeiler,” in Wolfgang Helck and Hartwig Altenmüller, eds., Lexikon der Ägyptologie, 7 vols. (Wiesbaden: Harrassowitz, 1977–89), 4:1008–9; Heinrich Balez, “Die altägyptische Wandgliederung,” Mitteilungen des deutschen Archäologischen Instituts in Kairo, 1 (1930):57–62.
8. Erik Hornung, “Himmelsvorstellungen,” Lexikon der Ägyptologie, 2:1216.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[_Dad of a Mormon]

More particularly, if a substantial portions of the story were not contained in English books (like the Bible and Josephus) that Joseph had access to and was known to have read, then where, other than his imagination (since that has been ruled out given that the story predates Smith by thousands of years), did he get the substantial portion of the story?

I am going to write a story.

Before George Washington became the first president of the United States, he played quarterback for the New York Jets and won the Super Bowl.

Now where did this story originate? By your logic, we "know" that it wasn't my imagination because the story of George Washington predates me by hundreds of years.

Can you tell me what is substantially different from my story and the book of Abraham in terms of how it may have originated?

Your arguments can be refuted in two words: historical fiction.

[_Dad of a Mormon]

Let's take this one at a time.

Ancient texts indicate that the idolatrous gods of Elkenah, Libnah, Mahmackrah, and Korash, described in the book of Abraham (Abr. 1:6, 13, 17; facsimile 1, figs. 5–8), truly were worshipped in the ancient world, despite the fact that the Bible makes no mention of them. 5

I checked the footnote, and that information is nowhere to be found online.

However, I have learned to recognize weasel words. Peterson doesn't say that ancient texts actually mention the gods listed above, only that they "indicate" they existed. Which usually means that he is taking a mention of a god who may have the remotest similarity and extrapolating that it is referencing the same god. If not, show where any ancient texts mentions the four listed gods specifically. Let's investigate this claim in detail. When we have established whether this is a valid argument or not, we will begin investigating Peterson's other claims.

[_Mortal Man]

Dr. Peterson, in his Ensign article, "News from Antiquity, written Jan., 1994, he said:

The book begins with Abraham “in the land of Ur, of Chaldea.” (Abr. 1:20.) It is obvious that this “Chaldea” was a place under strong Egyptian influence. It was there that Abraham’s own fathers turned aside from worship of the true God to the service of “the god of Pharaoh, king of Egypt.” (Abr. 1:6; facsimile 1, fig. 9.) Apart from a passing reference in Joshua 24:2 [Josh. 24:2], the Bible does not tell of the idolatry of Abraham’s ancestors. However, their worship of false gods and Abraham’s faithfulness in worshipping the true God, as well as his attempts to convert his family, are common themes of many very old Jewish and Christian stories. (See, for instance, Jubilees 11:4, 7–8, 16–17; 12:1–8, 12–14; English translation in James H. Charlesworth, ed., The Old Testament Pseudepigrapha, 2 vols. (Garden City: Doubleday, 1983–85), 2:78–80; hereafter referred to as OTP. See also Jasher 9:6–19; 11:15–61; Josephus, Antiquities of the Jews, 1.7.1; Apocalypse of Abraham 1–8 [OTP, 1:689–93]; Qur’an 6:75; 9:114; 19:42–51, 21:52–68, 26:70–83, 37:84–97; Macaseh Abraham Abinu, in Adolf Jellinek, Bet ha-Midrasch, 6 vols. (Jerusalem: Wahrmann, reprint 1967), 1:26–27; Kebra Nagast 13, in E. A. Wallis Budge, The Book of the Cave of Treasures (London: Religious Tract Society, 1927), pp. 145–47; Louis Ginzberg, Legends of the Jews, 7 vols. (Philadelphia: Jewish Publication Society of America, 1967–68), 1:209–15; 5:215.

This was a very odd point for Dan to try to make, since most of the texts he quotes were available to Joseph Smith.

[_Mortal Man]

In the same article, Dr. Peterson points out:

Ancient texts indicate that the idolatrous gods of Elkenah, Libnah, Mahmackrah, and Korash, described in the book of Abraham (Abr. 1:6, 13, 17; facsimile 1, figs. 5–8), truly were worshipped in the ancient world, despite the fact that the Bible makes no mention of them.

Yes it does.

[_Kishkumen]

However, I have learned to recognize weasel words.

Well, Daniel provides plenty of material to practice those skills on!

[Guest]

I trust not everyone is reticent to explore my suggested starting point, and so let's begin by examining Abraham Chapter 1.

Is there anyone who disagrees that the bulk of the content for this chapter is not contained in the Bible or Josephus?

The bulk of chapter 1 derives from the Bible, Josephus, and Joseph's interpretation of the opening vignette.

[_Wisdom Seeker]

From LDS.org

Working from clues found in the last inscription on the Rosetta Stone, written in Greek, Champollion was finally able to decipher the other two inscriptions. In 1822 he published the results of his work and the science of Egyptology was born, allowing scholars to begin to read the most ancient texts of Egypt.

These developments involving the Rosetta Stone and Champollion contributed to the coming forth of the book of Abraham in a significant way.

Is this statement correct: These developments involving the Rosetta Stone and Champollion contributed to the coming forth of the book of Abraham in a significant way.? Does it sound as if the Rosetta Stone was essential in bringing forth what was written on the papyri?

[_wenglund]

I am going to write a story.

Before George Washington became the first president of the United States, he played quarterback for the New York Jets and won the Super Bowl.

Now where did this story originate? By your logic, we "know" that it wasn't my imagination because the story of George Washington predates me by hundreds of years.

But, the story of George Washington playing quarterback for the New York Jets doesn't predates you by hundreds of years? So, bad analogy (see below).

Can you tell me what is substantially different from my story and the book of Abraham in terms of how it may have originated?

Yes. The things I have and will specifically be pointing out, were a part of the Abraham story written thousands of years ago. The quarterback part of your story was made up by you today. That is a huge difference. Had you actually addressed my previous posts you might have realized that.

Your arguments can be refuted in two words: historical fiction.

Your alleged refutation can be negated in a single word: fallacious.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[_wenglund]

This was a very odd point for Dan to try to make, since most of the texts he quotes were available to Joseph Smith.

He wasn't making that "point," I was. And, while some of the sited texts may have been available to Joseph, the question is still open as to whether he read or used them, and whether they were the source from whence the Book of Abraham was derived.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-