WOW Takes Another Hit: Coffee and Prostate Cancer

[_DrW]

Like many here, I have come to greatly appreciate the pleasures of coffee since leaving the Morg (and it only took me about 20 years).

Imagine my delight to see on the news last evening that coffee consumption is associated with a reduced risk for prostate cancer. http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/story/2011/05/17/coffee-prostate-cancer.html

And in the studies reported, this is not a marginal effect. The risk of prostate cancer was shown to be reduced by up to 60% in some populations. For a disease as prevalent as prostate cancer, this is a highly significant beneficial effect.

(An old saying among those in the business regarding the inevitability of this disease in men: 'If men lived long enough, they would all die of prostate cancer.' --- Okay, so maybe you had to be in the business.)

Also turns out that coffee is also protective against diabetes, and even certain forms of breast cancer.

Among the beneficial compounds that nature stuck into coffee are certain pyridines (which are apparently unique to roasted coffee beans). One of the most interesting is (N-methyl-pyridinium formate), which strongly inhibits the replication of both DNA and RNA viruses.

So, looks like Joseph Smith Jr. got it wrong yet again. Could this be yet another example of the inspired leadership afforded members of the LDS Church? Or was Joseph Smith speaking as a man when he revealed the WOW (which he himself failed to observe)?

For those who may own stock in Starbucks - good move.

[_Themis]

So, looks like Joseph Smith Jr. got it wrong yet again. Could this be yet another example of the inspired leadership afforded members of the LDS Church? Or was Joseph Smith speaking as a man when he revealed the WOW (which he himself failed to observe)?

It's not hard to see that Joseph was just making it up based on the ideas of the day. It wasn't even him who decided to put coffee or tea on the list. He only said hot drinks. It was the temperature that was important. Hot chocolate would have been forbidden. Like many religious founders, Joseph was not very good at following his own rules whether with the WOW or with Women. Rules are for the underlings. :)

[_DrW]

So, looks like Joseph Smith Jr. got it wrong yet again. Could this be yet another example of the inspired leadership afforded members of the LDS Church? Or was Joseph Smith speaking as a man when he revealed the WOW (which he himself failed to observe)?

It's not hard to see that Joseph was just making it up based on the ideas of the day. It wasn't even him who decided to put coffee or tea on the list. He only said hot drinks. It was the temperature that was important. Hot chocolate would have been forbidden. Like many religious founders, Joseph was not very good at following his own rules whether with the WOW or with Women. Rules are for the underlings. :)

In thinking about this, I made a quick rough order of magnitude estimate of the number of Mormon men who may well have suffered and/or died needlessly from prostate cancer because of their adherence to the WOW.

With a worldwide (and US) prostate cancer prevelance of roughly 150 per 100,000 men, and a claimed membership in the Church of some 12-14 million, a very conservative estimate would still be on the order of 10,000.

Something to think about it before claiming that, while it may be silly, Mormonism is harmless.

[_jskains]

Must be nice to leave out valid parts.

"It is premature to recommend that men increase coffee intake to reduce advanced prostate cancer risk based on this single study. In addition, the effects of coffee consumption on other aspects of health must be considered in making consumption recommendations."

[Guest]

Must be nice to leave out valid parts.

"It is premature to recommend that men increase coffee intake to reduce advanced prostate cancer risk based on this single study. In addition, the effects of coffee consumption on other aspects of health must be considered in making consumption recommendations."

This is a standard word of caution that is issued when such studies are released, less folks run out and thoughtlessly overindulge because of the latest (and in this case somewhat surprising) findings. And of course, with an effect this significant, confirming studies will need to be done.

Nonetheless, if you have any familiarity at all with the results of studies such as these, you will understand that a 60% reduction in the risk of a high prevalence cancer, such as prostate cancer, even in a relatively small sub-population, is highly significant. It is especially significant when a positive dose effect is indicated, as was the case here (increasing coffee consumption associated with decreasing risk, or increased protective effect). It is also significant that they have isolated the unique pyridine compounds from coffee that are likely to mediate the protective effect.

When making your mind up about coffee, do not forget about the other studies that show beneficial effects on diabetes and breast cancer risk.

In fact, the only hint of a cancer risk related downside to coffee consumption that I know of is an older study that indicated a weak association with bladder cancer. Since these findings were confounded by smoking (as a protective factor, no less), they have been largely discounted.

Think I'll head over to Starbucks.

[_jskains]

I think your jumping to conclusions in an effort to put the Church in a bad light.

I like this statement on the same article from the comments:

"Coffee's good. No bad. Wait it's good. No Bad..... It's good, It's bad.

I guess it depends on who's funding your study. I would love to see a requirement for every study to list how it was funded and who funded it."

It's like the whole "Wine is good for you", but the reality is to get the true benefits to use WINE to get various healthy components, you have to drink enough to trash your liver.

It's easy to focus on the "benefits" without weighing the negatives, expecially when you have an agenda.

JMS

[_Doctor Scratch]

Hi there, jskains.

There are a number of problems with your assertions on this thread. For starters, this:

I think your jumping to conclusions in an effort to put the Church in a bad light.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that coffee was placed under the umbrella of WoW restriction in the wake of BY's aggressive political maneuvering against the U.S. government. Thus, criticism of the Church's restriction on coffee is really less of a criticism of Joseph Smith's revelatory abilities per se, and more a critique of BY's political policies. Right?

And then there's this:

It's like the whole "Wine is good for you", but the reality is to get the true benefits to use WINE to get various healthy components, you have to drink enough to trash your liver.

It's easy to focus on the "benefits" without weighing the negatives, expecially when you have an agenda.

JMS

I supposed this begs the question of why Joseph Smith himself was a drinker of both beer and wine. So, in summary, this is less an issue of anyone (including these presumably never-Mo researchers) "trashing the Church," and more an issue of the Church getting "trashed" on account of its own hypocrisies.

[_Themis]

I think your jumping to conclusions in an effort to put the Church in a bad light.

I like this statement on the same article from the comments:

"Coffee's good. No bad. Wait it's good. No Bad..... It's good, It's bad.

I guess it depends on who's funding your study. I would love to see a requirement for every study to list how it was funded and who funded it."

Moderation is the key. I think it is clear that coffee is not really that bad, nor was coffee restricted in the WOW originally. Temperature was what was really meant, and was later changed due to temperature being shown not to affect ones health.

It's like the whole "Wine is good for you", but the reality is to get the true benefits to use WINE to get various healthy components, you have to drink enough to trash your liver.

CFR. Remember wine and beer were not a part of the WOW. They were not considered a strong drink. This was added later I think for other reasons.

It's easy to focus on the "benefits" without weighing the negatives, especially when you have an agenda.

Clearly some groups do have an agenda, and especially LDS. I hear the same attacking of any study that does show a health benefit to coffee, tea or things like wine all the time by LDS. I seems clear that moderation of these things is not bad for you. Certainly other eating and exercise habits of many people in and out of the church will have significantly more harmful affects on their physical and spiritual health. I would prefer the church to not worry about members drinking some coffee or wine and concentrate on the things that will benefit their members the most like exercise and eating right. How really evil is it for one person who eats well and exercise and has a healthy body to drink some wine compared to another who sits around all day and eats tons of greasy sugary foods and is morbidly obese, but hey they can get a temple recommend.

[_jskains]

Don't have time to spend looking for too much, but here is even one comment on the myth of healthy achohol:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2001/dec/2 ... calscience

JMS

[_jskains]

Moderation is the key. I think it is clear that coffee is not really that bad, nor was coffee restricted in the WOW originally. Temperature was what was really meant, and was later changed due to temperature being shown not to affect ones health.

I am not really concerned about what was "originally" in the WoW as I believe in continuing revelation.

CFR. Remember wine and beer were not a part of the WOW. They were not considered a strong drink. This was added later I think for other reasons.

Wine is one of the strongest drinks out there. Beer and Ales is what most consider originally not in the WoW.

Clearly some groups do have an agenda, and especially LDS.

That's just an unnessesary attack. I also did not originate this thread. A Critic did instead as an attempt to attack the Word of Wisdom. My agenda is simply to defend against the unprovoked attack.

I hear the same attacking of any study that does show a health benefit to coffee, tea or things like wine all the time by LDS. [/quote]

And I see the blatant ignorance of these studies. Until the invasion/decline of LDS in Utah, Utah was number 1 in health. Doctors both inside and outside of Utah contributed that to the Word of Wisdom. That says a lot that folks like you seem to ignore.

JMS