Is paying tithing essential to achieve exaltation...?

[_jon]

In his work 'Salvation. In the Counterfeit Gospel of Mormonism', author Phil Roberts lists the following twelve steps as necessary:
1.Faith
2.Repentance
3.Baptism
4.The gift of the Holy Ghost
5.Priesthood ordination (for males only, as he correctly notes)
6.Temple endowment
7.Celestial marriage
8.Observing the Word of Wisdom
9.Sustaining the prophet
10.Tithing
11.Attending sacrament meetings
12.Obedience to the church

As you can see he lists Tithing.

FARMS has published a review of this work written by McGregor (Widening the Divide: The Countercult Version of Mormonism) in which he says this about Roberts twelve steps:
The fact is that Roberts is simply wrong on the last five items. None of them is, strictly speaking, essential for salvation or exaltation

So, according to McGregor you can achieve exaltation without - observing the WOW, sustaining the Prophet, paying tithing, attending sacrament meetings or being obedient to the Church.

Really?

[_bcspace]

Depends on what kind of salvation you want. When the scriptures or the LDS Church speak of salvation it is almost always in the sense of the highest salvation possible which is exaltation in the CK.

However, as we know, the less valiant in the testimony of Jesus will inherit a Terrestial glory and not paying a full and honest tithe would certainly preclude one from the Celestial considering what we know about the testimojy of Jesus (which I posted on in the other thread).

FARMS has published a review of this work written by McGregor (Widening the Divide: The Countercult Version of Mormonism) in which he says this about Roberts twelve steps:
The fact is that Roberts is simply wrong on the last five items. None of them is, strictly speaking, essential for salvation or exaltation

So, according to McGregor you can achieve exaltation without - observing the WOW, sustaining the Prophet, paying tithing, attending sacrament meetings or being obedient to the Church.

Really?

I'd initially hazard he's referring to basic salvation which everyone is entitled to. But if it's true he's also referring to exaltation, he's dead wrong. Perhaps one could say that if one hears the gospel for the first time in the afterlife and accepts it, some of that may not be necessary. But I think there one's thoughts and desires will become a more important factor. Yet the Church still exists there in the Spirit World and one will still have to be obedient to it.

[_just me]

According to LDS scripture the poor and needy are exempt from paying tithing. In fact, the tithes are supposed to help them.

Now, if you go by modern teaching and interpretation there isn't really an exemption for the poor and the needy. They are taught they should pay tithing rather than purchase food or health insurance for their children.

But, yeah, if you are poor then you can still be exalted without tithing. No income=No tithing.

One might consider that tithing is not what is required. Consecration is. A poor or needy person would actually receive under the LoC. Or better said, they would get back more than they gave over. That is not the case under the LoT. (I am not going to argue LoC/UO with anyone)

Besides, if you read the tithing section closely you will realize the church ain't doing what it says anyway. Guess everyone is gonna burn.

[_jon]

In October of 1998 Hurricane Mitch devastated many parts of Central America. President Gordon B. Hinckley was very concerned for the victims of this disaster, many of whom lost everything—food, clothing, and household goods. He visited the Saints in the cities of San Pedro Sula and Tegucigalpa, Honduras; and Managua, Nicaragua. And like the words of the loving prophet Elijah to a starving widow, this modern prophet’s message in each city was similar—to sacrifice and be obedient to the law of tithing.

But how can you ask someone so destitute to sacrifice? President Hinckley knew that the food and clothing shipments they received would help them survive the crisis, but his concern and love for them went far beyond that. As important as humanitarian aid is, he knew that the most important assistance comes from God, not from man. The prophet wanted to help them unlock the windows of heaven as promised by the Lord in the book of Malachi (see Mal. 3:10; Mosiah 2:24).

This is a quote from a talk by a General Authority entitled "Tithing - a Commandment even for the Destitute"

I guess even the poorest need to pay tithes.

[_Buffalo]

In October of 1998 Hurricane Mitch devastated many parts of Central America. President Gordon B. Hinckley was very concerned for the victims of this disaster, many of whom lost everything—food, clothing, and household goods. He visited the Saints in the cities of San Pedro Sula and Tegucigalpa, Honduras; and Managua, Nicaragua. And like the words of the loving prophet Elijah to a starving widow, this modern prophet’s message in each city was similar—to sacrifice and be obedient to the law of tithing.

But how can you ask someone so destitute to sacrifice? President Hinckley knew that the food and clothing shipments they received would help them survive the crisis, but his concern and love for them went far beyond that. As important as humanitarian aid is, he knew that the most important assistance comes from God, not from man. The prophet wanted to help them unlock the windows of heaven as promised by the Lord in the book of Malachi (see Mal. 3:10; Mosiah 2:24).

This is a quote from a talk by a General Authority entitled "Tithing - a Commandment even for the Destitute"

I guess even the poorest need to pay tithes.

What a disgusting thing to do.

[_just me]

It reminds me of Robin Hood. Taxing the poor so bad they suffer and die to build up the wealthy empire.

[_cinepro]

Maybe McGregor was putting the list in a universal context, meaning there have been times and places where people weren't expected to do those things in order to be "exalted".

So while an LDS in 2011 does have to pay tithing and keep the WoW in order to go to the Temple (and thus be "exalted"), an LDS in 1832 didn't, and a Nephite in 50BC probably didn't.

Even things like "Temple Endowment" (#6) must be done via proxy for those who lived on the Earth without Temples. But there is no "proxy" Word of Wisdom for those who lived without it.

Although it would be funny if we had to pay proxy tithing when we did Temple work for someone....

[_jon]

While everything on this interesting list is an authentic point of Latter day Saint belief—although he seriously distorts several of these points—the list itself is something of a novelty. While any LDS list of requirements for exaltation would presumably include the first seven items, the last five look remarkably like padding. It appears that Roberts simply wants to make the list look as long as possible. Its organization is also suspect. Why are items 8 to 12 placed where they are? Converts commit to doing these things before they are baptized, and a fairly determined effort at keeping these commitments is required before a person can gain a temple recommend and receive his or her endowments—item 6 in Roberts's scheme. This makes items 8 to 12 logically prior to item 6—not a very sensible arrangement, one would think. And why those five items in particular, anyway? Why not dealing honestly with our fellowmen, obeying the law of chastity, bearing one another's burdens, sharing the gospel with our neighbors, or working to provide the ordinances of salvation for our kindred dead, all of which are equally important?

The above is McGregor's critique of the list in context.

[_mjz1]

In October of 1998 Hurricane Mitch devastated many parts of Central America. President Gordon B. Hinckley was very concerned for the victims of this disaster, many of whom lost everything—food, clothing, and household goods. He visited the Saints in the cities of San Pedro Sula and Tegucigalpa, Honduras; and Managua, Nicaragua. And like the words of the loving prophet Elijah to a starving widow, this modern prophet’s message in each city was similar—to sacrifice and be obedient to the law of tithing.

But how can you ask someone so destitute to sacrifice? President Hinckley knew that the food and clothing shipments they received would help them survive the crisis, but his concern and love for them went far beyond that. As important as humanitarian aid is, he knew that the most important assistance comes from God, not from man. The prophet wanted to help them unlock the windows of heaven as promised by the Lord in the book of Malachi (see Mal. 3:10; Mosiah 2:24).

This is a quote from a talk by a General Authority entitled "Tithing - a Commandment even for the Destitute"

I guess even the poorest need to pay tithes.

What a disgusting thing to do.

Yes Buffalo, it is so Disgusting to ask people to keep the commandments of God so He can bless them. Just like it was Disgusting when Elijah asked the widow to prepare his food first when all she had was enough for one more serving and she still had her needs as well as her sons to meet? Or disgusting when God asked Abraham to sacrifice his son? Or disgusting when God allowed Satan to completely destroy Job temporally? Your vision is Limited Buffalo, God does ask us to do hard things to see whether we place him at the top of our Totem pole or not.

[_Morley]

Yes Buffalo, it is so Disgusting to ask people to keep the commandments of God so He can bless them. Just like it was Disgusting when Elijah asked the widow to prepare his food first when all she had was enough for one more serving and she still had her needs as well as her sons to meet? Or disgusting when God asked Abraham to sacrifice his son? Or disgusting when God allowed Satan to completely destroy Job temporally? Your vision is Limited Buffalo, God does ask us to do hard things to see whether we place him at the top of our Totem pole or not.

I can't answer for Buffalo, but I'll insert my own opinion, here.

Yes, God asking Abraham to sacrifice his son was disgusting (murder often is disgusting). And yes, God allowing Satan to completely destroy Job (and his entire family) was disgusting. The fact that God teaches us to not do those sorts of things to others--while apparently doing them Himself (if you believe the Bible), is disgusting, too. In my own admittedly limited vision, that particular God doesn't belong on my totem pole.