harmony wrote:If God alone can know a person's heart, then what purpose does baptism show? Any outward action serves only to impact the person's fellow humans, not God.
Now that is an interesting thought. It is probably worth applying that to the Temple ordinances. Are they really for the dead whom God already knows?
'Church pictures are not always accurate' (The Nehor May 4th 2011)
Morality is doing what is right, regardless of what you are told. Religion is doing what you are told, regardless of what is right.
Wisdom Seeker wrote:Were there not large pools of water where one would wash-dunk oneself to physically show others a renewal or repentance process in that era? Or was baptism always performed by someone else with some sort of authority?
The ritual baths from that era had more to do with ritual purity. Modern Christian, and especially Mormon Christian concepts of sin and atonement are completely alien to 2nd temple Judaism(s).
Perhaps even more importantly, Jesus virtually never used the word “Church” and has no public teaching calling for a community of elect and for the founding of a church. In Luke 22:26, where Jesus says “Let the leader become as one who serves” the kind of service he speaks of is “diakonia”, the kind of serving one does at the table and has connotations of inferiority. To me, that really says a lot.
Last edited by Guest on Tue May 31, 2011 12:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
harmony wrote:If God alone can know a person's heart, then what purpose does baptism show? Any outward action serves only to impact the person's fellow humans, not God.
Baptism can be seen as an outward sign of regeneration.
harmony wrote:If God alone can know a person's heart, then what purpose does baptism show? Any outward action serves only to impact the person's fellow humans, not God.
Baptism can be seen as an outward sign of regeneration.
I don't understand.
(Nevo, Jan 23) And the Melchizedek Priesthood may not have been restored until the summer of 1830, several months after the organization of the Church.
A sign of conversion, that God has removed your heart of stone and replaced it with a heart of flesh. Not so much for God's sake, but for fellow believers.
Hear the words of a Prophet of God: “Some say the kingdom of God was not set up on the earth until the day of Pentecost, and that John [the Baptist] did not preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins; but I say, in the name of the Lord, that the kingdom of God was set up on the earth from the days of Adam to the present time. Whenever there has been a righteous man on earth unto whom God revealed His word and gave power and authority to administer in His name, and where there is a priest of God—a minister who has power and authority from God to administer in the ordinances of the gospel and officiate in the priesthood of God, there is the kingdom of God; and, in consequence of rejecting the Gospel of Jesus Christ and the Prophets whom God hath sent, the judgments of God have rested upon people, cities, and nations, in various ages of the world, which was the case with the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah, that were destroyed for rejecting the Prophets. …
“As touching the Gospel and baptism that John preached, I would say that John came preaching the Gospel for the remission of sins; he had his authority from God, and the oracles of God were with him, and the kingdom of God for a season seemed to rest with John alone. The Lord promised Zacharias that he should have a son who was a descendant of Aaron, the Lord having promised that the priesthood should continue with Aaron and his seed throughout their generations. Let no man take this honor upon himself, except he be called of God, as was Aaron [see Hebrews 5:4]; and Aaron received his call by revelation. …
“But, says one, the kingdom of God could not be set up in the days of John, for John said the kingdom was at hand. But I would ask if it could be any nearer to them than to be in the hands of John. The people need not wait for the days of Pentecost to find the kingdom of God, for John had it with him, and he came forth from the wilderness crying out, ‘Repent ye, for the kingdom of heaven is nigh at hand’ [Matthew 3:2], as much as to say, ‘Out here I have got the kingdom of God and I am coming after you; I have got the kingdom of God, and you can get it, and I am coming after you; and if you don’t receive it, you will be damned;’ and the scriptures represent that all Jerusalem went out unto John’s baptism [see Matthew 3:5–6]. There was a legal administrator, and those that were baptized were subjects for a king; and also the laws and oracles of God were there; therefore the kingdom of God was there; for no man could have better authority to administer than John; and our Savior submitted to that authority Himself, by being baptized by John; therefore the kingdom of God was set up on the earth, even in the days of John. …" Joseph Smith
“If the Church were not true, our enemies would be bored rather than threatened, and acquiescent rather than anxious. Hell is moved only when things move heavenward.” -Neal A. Maxwell