Most profound heresy against the Christian Faith

[_moksha]

Is there any way to get guitar and banjo Christianity and conservative Mormonism to accept God using either the big bang or string theory (an natural connection to the guitar and banjo) as the means of creation? I hope this does not have to be shunted aside as the science heresy.

[_bcspace]

I do not believe for a New York minute that you've gone beyond FAIR, FARMS, or Jeff Lindsay for these citations. (See, for example, here.) My comment was correct and, incidentally, posting material without attribution is not okay.

Which ECF quote do you think is incorrectly attributted? Here is a handy reference for your purusal:

http://www.ccel.org/fathers.html

I've fully read most of these. Have you?

Is there any way to get guitar and banjo Christianity and conservative Mormonism to accept God using either the big bang or string theory (an natural connection to the guitar and banjo) as the means of creation? I hope this does not have to be shunted aside as the science heresy.

Am all for the Big Bang and String theory for Creation, even a banjo driven one.

[_kairos]

i will go with madeline- an uncreated God is anathema to foundational Christian principles. alonside is that Mormons seem to be unaware how really powerful and awesome the Creator/God is- his power to create this universe in its complexity, design of animals, materails, and life in all forms seems to be dismissed by the doctrine "I can be god with my own planet like the God next door'

[_mjz1]

Is it not more fully dismissing God's power by saying that he CANNOT create his children into beings like unto himself? Chew on that one for a few minutes before you respond. Christ promised these blessings himself in the Bible "To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne." Revelation 3:21 Can it be any clearer? Those who overcome, will Sit with Christ on his throne (throne denoting the power and authority of an exalted God) Yet Christ said that he is sitting in his Father's throne? Meaning what? This is referred to as a syllogism, or deductive reasoning. Thus the Syllogism follows: Those who overcome sit on Christ's throne, Christ has Sat down on his Father's throne, therefore those who overcome sit down on the Father's throne. Which in the end ultimately brings more glory to the Father, and exalts him more fully. What does Christ say? "Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven." I submit to you the greatest way to glorify the Father is to become exactly what he wants you to become, and what he wants you to become is something Exactly like he is. To be one with Him, one in comprehension, love, might, dominion, justice, mercy, kindness, compassion, truth, and power. Jesus Christ: "That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me." John 17:21

[_madeleine]

for what it's worth, Mormons us the word "glorify" in a singular manner, which doesn't reflect its actual meaning.

glo·ri·fy verb \ˈglȯr-ə-ˌfī\

to give glory to (as in worship)

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/glorify

When we glorify God, we aren't doing something that increases His power. That is not possible, or even logical, as God is omnipotent. When we glorify God we are worshiping Him.

mjz1, it is also a singular failure of Mormonism to recognize that people have actually read and adhered to the Bible for 2000 years. We become heirs of Christ through grace, God is God by nature. The Bible is very clear there is One God, Revealed in a unity of Three Persons, Father, Son and Holy Spirit. As God's beloved Creation, we are united to the Father in and through Jesus Christ.

Peace.

[_Buffalo]

for what it's worth, Mormons us the word "glorify" in a singular manner, which doesn't reflect its actual meaning.

glo·ri·fy verb \ˈglȯr-ə-ˌfī\

to give glory to (as in worship)

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/glorify

When we glorify God, we aren't doing something that increases His power. That is not possible, or even logical, as God is omnipotent. When we glorify God we are worshiping Him.

mjz1, it is also a singular failure of Mormonism to recognize that people have actually read and adhered to the Bible for 2000 years. We become heirs of Christ through grace, God is God by nature. The Bible is very clear there is One God, Revealed in a unity of Three Persons, Father, Son and Holy Spirit. As God's beloved Creation, we are united to the Father in and through Jesus Christ.

Peace.

Sure, as long as you stick to the post-exile stuff.

[_madeleine]

for what it's worth, Mormons us the word "glorify" in a singular manner, which doesn't reflect its actual meaning.

glo·ri·fy verb \ˈglȯr-ə-ˌfī\

to give glory to (as in worship)

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/glorify

When we glorify God, we aren't doing something that increases His power. That is not possible, or even logical, as God is omnipotent. When we glorify God we are worshiping Him.

mjz1, it is also a singular failure of Mormonism to recognize that people have actually read and adhered to the Bible for 2000 years. We become heirs of Christ through grace, God is God by nature. The Bible is very clear there is One God, Revealed in a unity of Three Persons, Father, Son and Holy Spirit. As God's beloved Creation, we are united to the Father in and through Jesus Christ.

Peace.

Sure, as long as you stick to the post-exile stuff.

Hello Buffalo, this is a Mormon perspective of course, one being, that the Bible contains a record of people screwing up, God wiping everything out, and starting all over. (a cycle of apostasy)

A return to the polytheism of the Hebrews and their neighbors is a Mormon idea, which from a Christian perspective, is a regression. God led the people of Israel out of their paganism. This is made firmly clear in the "post-exile stuff"...they made it! (tada!) Mormons seek to return to an understanding of which God has led us (humans) from.

Christians have always read the Bible as a progression in the understanding of Who God Is. God, never giving up and starting over, but that of leading people to Himself, fulfilled in God's Perfect Word Revealed: Jesus Christ.

God is the Creator of our nature, and works through it. He is not frustrated by that which He Created.

Peace.

[_Buffalo]

Hello Buffalo, this is a Mormon perspective of course, one being, that the Bible contains a record of people screwing up, God wiping everything out, and starting all over. (a cycle of apostasy)

A return to the polytheism of the Hebrews and their neighbors is a Mormon idea, which from a Christian perspective, is a regression. God led the people of Israel out of their paganism. This is made firmly clear in the "post-exile stuff"...they made it! (tada!) Mormons seek to return to an understanding of which God has led us (humans) from.

Christians have always read the Bible as a progression in the understanding of Who God Is. God, never giving up and starting over, but that of leading people to Himself, fulfilled in God's Perfect Word Revealed: Jesus Christ.

God is the Creator of our nature, and works through it. He is not frustrated by that which He Created.

Peace.

That's not really an accurate history of the Hebrews. Their God was always a "pagan god" borrowed from other "pagan" cultures. It's just that his sons were later demoted to angels instead of lesser gods. Once you remove the godhood from competing gods, you've got monotheism. Early in their history El acknowledged that there were other very real gods. Later he changed his mind. Why is that?

But long before El or Yahweh came on the scene, people were worshiping all sorts of gods. Humanity's first gods were animal gods and fire gods. Nothing to do with the Hebrew mythology at all. It sure took a long time for this tribal god to manifest himself to humanity.

[_madeleine]

A secular view, which denies God, or even a basic acknowledgement of how humans respond.

It is like standing with a geologist while admiring the beauty of a mountain range. Only to have the geologist break in to describe the process of erosion and types of rocks and how they are formed...and really, the mountain is just a pile of rock. Yes, very informative and factual, thanks.

[_ErikJohnson]

It opens the door to the radical LDS claim (by Christian standards) that Jesus is not God Eternal, but rather came into being as an “organized intelligence.”

The LDS claim is both.

Hey bcspace--

Appreciate the response. But even the most casual reader can see at least one of them must be wrong. Having an origin (created) and being eternal (uncreated) are mutually exclusive, so whatever the answer--it's certainly not "both."

Care to put your ability as an LDS apologist to the test and make a defense of this claim?

--Erik