My Column in the "Mormon Times"

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_moksha
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Re: My Column in the "Mormon Times"

Post by _moksha »

I keyed into this quote from the article:


It's a well-known principle in economics, however, that price-fixing cartels tend to be unstable and temporary. Why? Among other reasons, the diverging interests of a cartel's various members typically fracture it over time. Similarly, criminal and other conspiracies generally falter — and the bigger they are, the more likely this is — as time passes and the individual conspirators seek to further their own interests, or to minimize risks or harm, by going their separate ways.

This is one of the reasons it's so difficult to view all, most, or even, really, any of Joseph Smith's early associates as conspiring with him to commit fraud. But the principal reason is that there is no substantial evidence to suggest that these early associates were people of bad character, while there is plenty to the contrary.


That should show those critics. They all stuck together and were of good character.
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_Daniel Peterson
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Re: My Column in the "Mormon Times"

Post by _Daniel Peterson »

moksha wrote:That should show those critics. They all stuck together and were of good character.

You may think that trivial.

I don't.
_Doctor Scratch
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Re: My Column in the "Mormon Times"

Post by _Doctor Scratch »

moksha wrote:I keyed into this quote from the article:


It's a well-known principle in economics, however, that price-fixing cartels tend to be unstable and temporary. Why? Among other reasons, the diverging interests of a cartel's various members typically fracture it over time.


Yep. And as we know, there were no "fractures" whatsoever among the early Saints.
"[I]f, while hoping that everybody else will be honest and so forth, I can personally prosper through unethical and immoral acts without being detected and without risk, why should I not?." --Daniel Peterson, 6/4/14
_Daniel Peterson
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Re: My Column in the "Mormon Times"

Post by _Daniel Peterson »

Doctor Scratch wrote:Yep. And as we know, there were no "fractures" whatsoever among the early Saints.

There were plenty of fractures.

Come on. Try to follow the argument.

I realize that you're mostly interested in personalities, not arguments -- and mostly in my personality, for that matter -- but try it. You may find that you actually enjoy substance!

The point, obviously, is that the alleged fraudulent conspiracy to produce the Book of Mormon and to pawn it off on a gullible public -- supposing for purpose of discussion that it actually existed -- did not fracture in any relevant sense: None of the conspirators ever spilled the beans.
_Doctor Scratch
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Re: My Column in the "Mormon Times"

Post by _Doctor Scratch »

Daniel Peterson wrote:
Doctor Scratch wrote:Yep. And as we know, there were no "fractures" whatsoever among the early Saints.

There were plenty of fractures.

Come on. Try to follow the argument.

I realize that you're mostly interested in personalities, not arguments -- and mostly in my personality, for that matter -- but try it. You may find that you actually enjoy substance!

The point, obviously, is that the alleged fraudulent conspiracy to produce the Book of Mormon and to pawn it off on a gullible public -- supposing for purpose of discussion that it actually existed -- did not fracture in any relevant sense: None of the conspirators ever spilled the beans.


So, what are you saying, then? Why compare the "conspirators" to "price-fixing cartels"?
"[I]f, while hoping that everybody else will be honest and so forth, I can personally prosper through unethical and immoral acts without being detected and without risk, why should I not?." --Daniel Peterson, 6/4/14
_Daniel Peterson
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Re: My Column in the "Mormon Times"

Post by _Daniel Peterson »

Doctor Scratch wrote:So, what are you saying, then? Why compare the "conspirators" to "price-fixing cartels"?

I don't think you're really this dense. You're fishing for something.

I compared them because price-fixing cartels are a classic instance of a kind of conspiracy, and one that has been intensively studied. And they don't tend to hang together. Members begin to talk.

But the alleged conspiracy surrounding the Book of Mormon, although it underwent extraordinary stresses and strains, did hang together. And its members didn't begin to talk.

Now, if you had earned any right to expect me to interact with you, I would have been happy to do so further on this topic. I'm a patient teacher. But you haven't. And I don't trust you as a partner in conversation.

So that's it.
_Doctor Scratch
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Re: My Column in the "Mormon Times"

Post by _Doctor Scratch »

Daniel Peterson wrote:
Doctor Scratch wrote:So, what are you saying, then? Why compare the "conspirators" to "price-fixing cartels"?

I don't think you're really this dense. You're fishing for something.

I compared them because price-fixing cartels are a classic instance of a kind of conspiracy, and one that has been intensively studied. And they don't tend to hang together. Members begin to talk.

But the alleged conspiracy surrounding the Book of Mormon, although it underwent extraordinary stresses and strains, did hang together. And its members didn't begin to talk.

Now, if you had earned any right to expect me to interact with you, I would have been happy to do so further on this topic. I'm a patient teacher. But you haven't. And I don't trust you as a partner in conversation.

So that's it.


It's pretty simple, Dr. P. I think that Moksha's post pretty much laid bare everything that was wrong with your article. Namely, that you were crafting a straw man. "Price-fixing cartels." Lol. Outrageous.

Why don't you try to confront the issues that matter in your articles? Do you really think that believing Latter-day Saints are incapable of dealing with substance? E.g., why not write about the Book of Abraham? Or Mark Hoffman? Or the confusing theology surrounding the nature of sealings?

You told me at one point that you disliked the fact that LDS seem to be so clueless about the problematic issues. Why not do something to help that?
"[I]f, while hoping that everybody else will be honest and so forth, I can personally prosper through unethical and immoral acts without being detected and without risk, why should I not?." --Daniel Peterson, 6/4/14
_Daniel Peterson
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Re: My Column in the "Mormon Times"

Post by _Daniel Peterson »

I expect that this one will draw fire from several directions:

http://www.mormontimes.com/article/2145 ... the-church
_Fifth Columnist
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Re: My Column in the "Mormon Times"

Post by _Fifth Columnist »

Daniel Peterson wrote:I expect that this one will draw fire from several directions:

http://www.mormontimes.com/article/2145 ... the-church

Yeah, it didn't do much for me. We all know that prophets make lots of mistakes, even weighty theological ones (e.g., BY teaching that God is still progressing and BRM teaching that this is a damnable heresy). Nevertheless, you strongly imply that members should follow whatever the current living prophet says. Nah. I don't think so.
_Daniel Peterson
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Re: My Column in the "Mormon Times"

Post by _Daniel Peterson »

Yup. That's one of the avenues of attack that I expected.

Thanks.

I'm going to be gone pretty much all day, just for the record.
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