Two Items on Joseph Smith and Early Mormon Polygamy

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_Buffalo
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Re: Two Items on Joseph Smith and Early Mormon Polygamy

Post by _Buffalo »

mikwut wrote:Themis,

Maybe you could provide one example from the article on how it focused on the author himself rather than appropriate criticism and critique of the work.

my regards, mikwut


I can't be arsed to read a full article those guys anymore, but I didn't notice an ad hominem in the first few paragraphs - just the usual smarmy, unprofessional, tabloid-esque writing style.

Example:

Shocking! Not only has G. D. Smith proved at once that Joseph's spelling hadn't improved much since he allegedly made up the several-hundred-page Book of Mormon, but also that Joseph wrote this to his wife! Imagine, a man writing that to his wife! If the book's title had not alerted us, we are certainly on notice that this is about plural marriage. (G. D. Smith hopes, one suspects, that we will emphasize the word plural rather than marriage.)

Alas, this document is merely a specimen of the hoary art of selective citation and textual distortion. One must admire G. D. Smith's bravado. In his haste to firmly fix some naughty thoughts to Joseph's character, he neglected to include much of the letter. He didn't burden us with the fact that Joseph wrote to three people: "Brother and Sister, Whitney, and &c." Now, this is a serious omission by G. D. Smith on two counts.


They could easily have conveyed this information in an academic and credible voice, but they go for sophomoric sarcasm every time. That's fine in a forum post, but disturbing in a publication associated with an accredited university.

This sort of odd writing style, at once sophomoric and pedantic, seems to hold regardless of author. Maybe in some future age it will become known as vox mopologia.
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_mikwut
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Re: Two Items on Joseph Smith and Early Mormon Polygamy

Post by _mikwut »

Hi Buffalo,

I did read the article. I might agree with your taste for how it could have been presented but that isn't an academic disqualifier for the article. I have read plenty of peer-reviewed articles in history, philosophy, science and the law that include strong advocacy for the position and the criticism's offered. They include sarcasm, acrimony, irony, even ridicule. My goodness its about the arguments man, and I don't fault even those I disagree with for a style of persuasion or criticism.

Your criticism, even if valid, amounts to trivial concern and ignores the arguments that are found throughout the article.

my regards, mikwut
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_Pahoran
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Re: Two Items on Joseph Smith and Early Mormon Polygamy

Post by _Pahoran »

Daniel Peterson wrote:Yeah. I recommended a book and an article. Pretty offensive. It certainly deserved personal attack.

No, no no. You've got it wrong.

When anti-Mormons, apostates, disaffected fringe Mormons and generic despisers heap abuse, calumny and ridicule upon you, that's not a personal attack, because you're merely a Mormon (ugh!) apologist (pffft!) and therefore not fully a person.

A personal attack is what takes place when any mere Mormon (ugh!) apologist (pffft!) has the awful temerity to dare to question the arguments, evidence or use of sources of one of the heroically independent thinkers they so deeply admire.

Daniel Peterson wrote:
moksha wrote:Dr. Peterson not only travels in elite circles

Ah, shucks. It ain't nothin compared to Joey's circles.

Ever-diminishing circles?

Regards,
Pahoran
_Pahoran
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Re: Two Items on Joseph Smith and Early Mormon Polygamy

Post by _Pahoran »

madeleine wrote:
bcspace wrote:Where? He himself authorized plural marriages. 2 Samuel 12:7-8 for example.

That is not an authorization of plural marriage.

Mark 10:2-12

Really?

Mark 10:
2¶And the Pharisees came to him, and asked him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife? tempting him.

3And he answered and said unto them, What did Moses command you?

4And they said, Moses suffered to write a bill of divorcement, and to put her away.

5And Jesus answered and said unto them, For the hardness of your heart he wrote you this precept.

6But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female.

7For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife;

8And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh.

9What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.

10And in the house his disciples asked him again of the same matter.

11And he saith unto them, Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her.

12And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery.

This isn't talking about plural marriage, but about divorce. The two things are not the same. Not even close.

Regards,
Pahoran
Last edited by Xenophon on Wed Jul 06, 2011 11:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
_bcspace
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Re: Two Items on Joseph Smith and Early Mormon Polygamy

Post by _bcspace »

He himself authorized plural marriages. 2 Samuel 12:7-8 for example.

Yahweh isn't Jesus.


The Bible testifies that they are one and the same.

For example both the New Testament states that Jesus is the Creator and the Savior. The Old Testament states that Yahweh is the Creator and the Savior. The book of Hebrews also tell us that those following Moses were following Christ in the cloud that went before them.

et. al.
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Satan's Plan Deconstructed.
Your Best Resource On Joseph Smith's Polygamy.
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_asbestosman
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Re: Two Items on Joseph Smith and Early Mormon Polygamy

Post by _asbestosman »

bcspace wrote:The Bible testifies that they are one and the same.

John 8:58 is one of my favorites where Jesus testifies that, before Abraham was I AM (or rather I, Jehovah).
That's General Leo. He could be my friend if he weren't my enemy.
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_Pahoran
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Re: Two Items on Joseph Smith and Early Mormon Polygamy

Post by _Pahoran »

ludwigm wrote:I've read the article. Every word of it. No substance.

"to sift through all the attacks"
I would use the expression "plough one's way through the mud"

There are some attacks left out.
1. The author is gay
2. The author's legs are stinking
3. The author is a democrat (l'hommage de bcspace and droopy)

No substance? Really? None at all?

Well, I've read the article, too. It certainly does have substance.

Just none that would affirm your prejudices.

Oh, wait. I see what you mean now.

Regards,
Pahoran
_Daniel Peterson
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Re: Two Items on Joseph Smith and Early Mormon Polygamy

Post by _Daniel Peterson »

Buffalo wrote:They could easily have conveyed this information in an academic and credible voice, but they go for sophomoric sarcasm every time. That's fine in a forum post, but disturbing in a publication associated with an accredited university.

This sort of odd writing style, at once sophomoric and pedantic, seems to hold regardless of author. Maybe in some future age it will become known as vox mopologia.

It's absolutely riveting to see you condemn sarcasm.
_Themis
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Re: Two Items on Joseph Smith and Early Mormon Polygamy

Post by _Themis »

mikwut wrote:Themis,

Maybe you could provide one example from the article on how it focused on the author himself rather than appropriate criticism and critique of the work.

my regards, mikwut


I would add the first paragraph which sets a negative tone about where he is going. It's not that he doesn't bring up good points, and it is ertainly not as bad a many apologetic reviews I have read.
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_harmony
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Re: Two Items on Joseph Smith and Early Mormon Polygamy

Post by _harmony »

So... I guess it's safe to assume Dan isn't going to give his opinion on one or two points that he thinks have merit.

Good to know.

I hate being right.
(Nevo, Jan 23) And the Melchizedek Priesthood may not have been restored until the summer of 1830, several months after the organization of the Church.
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