saving by grace and keeping commandments.

[_dogmatic]

i'm not Mormon.

sorry.

[_Jason Bourne]

You seem like a smart man, that knows his religion. Why then would you try to deceive me into thinking that the terms you use, saved, faith, grace, forgiveness, heaven... etc are the same as my use of the same terms. A honest answer would be, yes we believe these things, but our meanings of the terms are drastically different.

I am not attempting to deceive you. I know my religion and I can tell you how I believe much of this issue is being understood and interpreted in todays LDS Church. Accept it or reject it. I could care less. But don't preach to me what we believe. I don't do that to those of other faiths.

That said. The difference is this:

Mormon:
It is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do” (2 Nephi 25:23).

Sure. Endure to the end. Abide in Christ. Mormons believe in grace but also believe we must obey and run the race, or abide in Christ best we can. The after all we can do it the abiding in Christ process.

37And I say unto you again that he cannot save them in their sins; for I cannot deny his word, and he hath said that no unclean thing can inherit the kingdom of heaven; therefore, how can ye be saved, except ye inherit the kingdom of heaven? Therefore, ye cannot be saved in your sins.

32Nevertheless, he that repents and does the commandments of the Lord shall be forgiven;

You believe someone can be saved in their sins if they don't confess Christ?

Christian:
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

However, to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness." (Romans 4:5)

But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Romans 5:8

Ok.....

[_Aristotle Smith]

if born again christians believe god will save them by grace then why keep any commandments? seems like an oxymoron to me. wouldn't accepting Jesus as your lord and savior be enough to guarantee a persons salvation? most other religions believe some sort of effort must be made on the part of an individual in order to obtain glory. i agree with that. born again christians seem to stand alone if i understand things correctly.

will somebody enlighten me if this is not correct?

The real doctrine for protestants is that justification comes through faith alone, that nothing you do can merit salvation. However, that's not the end point. Justification through faith is supposed to continue on to sanctification through the Holy Spirit working inside of the sinner. This means that the person saved in Christ will begin to feel inclinations to go do works out of love for God, Jesus, and fellow human beings which continues on throughout life as one is further sanctified through the Holy Spirit.

This is for Protestants the only way to do truly good works. If one is trying to merit salvation through works, then the good works are not truly good, it's part of a transactional exchange where one does good in the expectation of getting good in return. The true Protestant Christian seeks to do good works out of love and gratitude to Jesus, and through pure motives which the Holy Spirit has created though working in the person.

This is how a Protestant might interpret, "by their fruits you will know them." Justification through faith should lead to sanctification and good works. Without good works, one has to seriously question if one has been justified by faith. It's not absolute evidence that one has not been justified by faith, but it is a clue.

[_dogmatic]

I apologize if I was misrepresenting what you believe. I understand that the Mormon church believes contrary to what their prophets and book said in the past, otherwise they would be in deep waters.


I

t is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do” (2 Nephi 25:23).


Sure. Endure to the end. Abide in Christ. Mormons believe in grace but also believe we must obey and run the race, or abide in Christ best we can. The after all we can do it the abiding in Christ process.

You affirm my use of this verse. Jesus + all i can do = 3rd heaven. Have you really done all you can do? Assuredly, you have tried very hard. However if there was ever a sinful moment where you knew you were doing wrong, or for that matter committing any sin that is avoidable is not doing all you can. 2 Nephi tells us we are only saved after all we can do, so if you have not done everything in your power to refrain from sin you are not saved with the grace of God. The Book of Mormon does not say ‘after you try as best you can’ it says after all you can do then God’s grace is sufficient.

37And I say unto you again that he cannot save them in their sins; for I cannot deny his word, and he hath said that no unclean thing can inherit the kingdom of heaven; therefore, how can ye be saved, except ye inherit the kingdom of heaven? Therefore, ye cannot be saved in your sins.

32Nevertheless, he that repents and does the commandments of the Lord shall be forgiven;


You believe someone can be saved in their sins if they don't confess Christ?

"Repentance" is a strange duck in the Mormon house. I won't go into that now. I'll say this. Christ is not sufficient to save you from your sins totally. So whatever sins are left are up to you. Good luck because "ye cannot be saved in your sins."

"Jesus' sacrifice was not able to cleanse us from all our sins" (Journal of Discourses, vol. 3, 1856, p. 247)

[_CSA]

All will have to recognize Jesus as the savior of the worlds and it is by his grace that all will be given eternal life. Those who recognize that the LDS faith is the restored gospel and accept it, either in this life or accepting it after the work is done for them in the temple, get more than eternal life. These people will get a Celestial kingdom to live in which is greater than the kingdom they would live in had they not accepted the true everlasting gospel of God.

So what does it matter if they keep or don't keep commandments, they still get eternal life. In speaking with those who believe that grace saves them, I get the sense that they feel they have a get out of jail for free card and don't have to live up to a standard of perfection.

[_dogmatic]

So what does it matter if they keep or don't keep commandments, they still get eternal life. In speaking with those who believe that grace saves them, I get the sense that they feel they have a get out of jail for free card and don't have to live up to a standard of perfection.

I would say Mormons are the most outwardly upright people I've met. Kind of reminds me of the Pharisees who could say they have upheld every part of the law. As far as I'm concerned any heaven bellow the celestial kingdom is hell, because they are separated from god. Which in the Bible is the definition of hell.

[_Jason Bourne]

Dogmatic


Really this is not worth it to me. I have been round and round with hundreds of evangelical saved by grace eternal security Christians before. You should also understand I am not a dogmatic Mormon and really more of a fringe type Latter day Saint. The term many use on this board or other is New Order Mormon, or NOM. I think one can argue and proof text all day long their position from the Bible as well and for a Mormon from the canon that is unique to them. Thing is I don't care. I know what I believe. If there is a God and Jesus is who he claimed I do not see Him as near as petty about things like works vs grace as well as theological mumbo jumbo formulas about what God is and on and on. I think God has done a pretty poor job at preserving what Christians think is His only word to mankind. Your creeds and your saved by grace alone all take a substantial amount of non biblical twists and turns to arrive at them.

I am ok with that too. It is tough to figure out what God really is and what he wants. If he is there he has made it pretty tough to know.

That said, personally I still have faith in God, I like Christianity but don't like what many Christians do to it. I believe is faith and don't think I can save myself. I think most Mormons I know believe that as well.

[_dogmatic]

n

[_dogmatic]

pretty poor job at preserving what Christians think

I'd have to say the same for Mormons, I haven't talked to one that actually agreed with their founding beliefs. best of luck to u

[_dogmatic]

pretty poor job at preserving what Christians think

I'd have to say the same for Mormons, I haven't talked to one that actually agreed with their founding beliefs. best of luck to u. I pretty much figured most Mormons on this site were on the fringe because contention is a great sin for them, of the devil.