Reformed Egyptian = Latin Short Hand? Celestial version

[Guest]

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[_Chap]

On a serious note, I really do want to know how anyone who is a believing Mormon apologist actually reconciles this.

Thanks,

Hasa Diga Eebowai

Well, it looks like

{believing Mormon apologist : believing Mormon apologist is someone who actually reconciles this} = ∅

I mean, DCP has deleted his account, and we are not even getting sneers in terza rima from Schryver, derails from Belmont, assertions that Mormons still make good neighbours from whyme, or genial but slightly irrelevant burblings from stemelbow. It is that bad.

The problem is that there are too few links in the chain to offer a plausible point for loosening it. We have a pretty reasonable assurance that the 'Caractors' are those that Joseph Smith said he had copied off the gold plates, and those 'Caractors' bear such a close resemblance to Tironian shorthand that one would have to be desperate to deny that they are one and the same. And we know that in Joseph Smith's day writing of that kind was known about, and reputed to be some mysterious ancient script, possibly Phoenician.

Unlike the Book of Abraham, there is no role for 'direct revelation', or reinterpreting the word 'translation' to save Joseph Smith's bacon, because no translation is involved. Even the most hardened apologist could hardly bring himself to say 'Well, when Joseph Smith and his associates said the 'Caractors' were copied from the gold plates, they did not necessarily mean 'copied' in the naïve sense understood by critics'. Or maybe they could? We shall no doubt see in the end.

[_jon]

More than a week has passed and the apologetic response?

*tumbleweed blows across*

[_Chap]

Since the apologists seem to have nothing to say, how about we start writing our own apologetic responses?

Then when we have a good range of them using different styles and techniques, we could start a poll on which one is the most effective, or else send sock puppets over to the MAD board to see which one they like best over there.

[_ELYSAB]

MORMONDISCUSSIONS on KINDERHOOK subject in the period of Aug 23, 2011 to Sep 11, 2011

It is amazing that the LDS didn't notice that the plates KINDERHOOK have their MESSAGE in CHARACTERS that are in the LANGUAGE of SABELLICUS people, that typically came from ISRAEL and stayed slave in PHOENICIA and then in GREECE and then went into ANCIENT ITALIA (ITA + LIAh = JACOB's , thus land for ISRAELITES). Thus SABELLICUS is the LANGUAGE for ISRAELITES that were dispersed from ISRAEL and that mixed with PHOENICIAN and GREEK, and that is basically the language of ANCIENT ITALY. And that is basically the language of the NEPHITES and the language that is in the CHARACTERS of the KINDERHOOK PLATES.

It is possible that the original plates, in the old and good BRASS were replaced by the "modern" brass by some SCIENTISTS of the CHURCH (BYU and ancestors of it), just to justify the idea that the nephites were in Mexico and Guatemala. Thus adding the FALSE BRASS. But in any way the correct information was added, by photography copying and corroding the false brass, with image fixing on false brass. Nice scientists using all means to justify ends.

http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/ca3d4fa44d118c5f7c37f99db79fa4eb5933b884c7c46c66418ea15adcb2f3986g.jpg

Click on previous URL. It shows the CHARACTERS and text used in LOS LUNAS, NEW MEXICO, for a religious text that is believed to be in Hebraic, for the TEN COMMANDMENTS. In fact it is written the same characters used in the KINDERHOOK PLATES, thus in SABELLICUS characters, thus in NEPHITIC characters, thus is very old ITALICUS characters. The similitude is very great, but the texts are not identical. Thus they were not made by the same person. They are just "similar materials". As Jews were able to translate through some type of Hebrew, it is also possible to translate through some type of Sabellich = Nephitic (the languages are very related).
ELYSAB. But the language LDS=BYU with stone languages of Guatemala and Mexico go nowhere. Maybe to Ideogramas of “monsters” = alike Chinese.



When we doubt generally is because our lack of information, of science.

And there are organizations, people, groups that try to keep people ignorant. The most typical example was Catholic organizations. Quite like keeping all the information and wisdom for itself. And keeping all people in the age of darkness, in the age of Medieval days. Even Bible people they couldn't read. In fact for that they had to be kept illeterated people.

Who is interested to keep in ignorance and to say USA indians allways were ignorant, not able to write and read? Catholics and Protestants = Christians. (LDS? What they teach? In practice? Did they ever find something from learned USA indians, as some objects with Nephites inscriptions? HUM !!! They are like Catholics...).



See enlarged, click next URL.
http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/018 ... 113b6g.jpg

Fig. 1.
The Grave Creek Stone
Smithsonian photograph 90-9022
(MS 3146, E.H. Davis Collection, National Anthropological Archives)
The Grave Creek Stone was discovered in 1838 during the excavation of the Grave Creek Mound, in Moundsville, West Virginia, on the Ohio River, about 10 miles south of
Wheeling. The stone, an actual photograph of which appears in Figure 1 above, was a
small inscribed sandstone disk, about 1 7/8" (4.8 cm) wide, and 1 1/2" (3.6 cm) high. The reverse side was uninscribed.

AS YOU CAN SEE, IT HAS INSCRIPTION IN SABELLI LANGUAGE (OR SIMILAR ANCIENT ITALIAN LANGUAGE), FOUND IN INDIAN MOUND.

IF IT WAS GOLD, IT WAS MELTED AND DISAPPEARED...

Object found in OHIO RIVER, in an [b]INDIAN MOUND, in 1838, with a text written in Nephitic = sabellic language. Can you read?[/b]

According Joseph Smith, the PROPHET (the one who knew about the Nephitic Empire, not BYU-FAIR scientists, the Nephitic Empire stretched from Cumorah Hill, the one nearby the town of New York, to the Rocky Mountains, passing by the place where Zelph, the White Lamanite, was found next to the Illinois River, thus, next to the Mound where Kinderhooh Plates where found...).

The Indian Inscription above was exactly under the “Indian center line” of Nephitic Empire stretching according Joseph Smith... or not?

Please have a more alternative view, more Jewish like… Examine the WEB Book of 84 pages:

The Ancient Los Lunas New Mexico Hebrew 10 Commandments Stone

Compiled by Glen W. Chapman From Various Sources- April 2006

An Ancient Hebrew Inscription in New Mexico

Fact or Fraud?

by James D. Tabor

http://chapmanresearch.org/PDF/The%20Ancient%20Los%20Lumas%20New%20Mexico%20Hebrew%2010%20Commandments%20Stone.pdf


My friends Jews (also some parents...) and I also can read/write the Gold plates of Book of Mormon through several ways, and yet the BYU are not able even through ONE... What a shame... (intellectual).

See my site: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=20022&p=498686#p498686 about MORMONDISCUSSIONS on KINDERHOOK subject

in the period of Aug 23, 2011 to Sep 11, 2011.

[_Chap]

My friends Jews (also some parents...) and I also can read/write the Gold plates of Book of Mormon through several ways, and yet the BYU are not able even through ONE... What a shame... (intellectual).

It's the Jews who have the gold plates? One of them dressed up as the Angel Moroni and tricked Joseph Smith into handing them over? Those people ...

[_ELYSAB]

MORONI probably was an ITALIAN person (now I angel, not happy in being painted of gold over the Temples...), an ISRAELITE. ITALIA (ITA+LIAh) was organized as 10 tribes kingdom = land of refuge for ISRAELITES runnuing away from Greece. Probably most of them arrived by sail-ship or sail-boat unboarding from Adriatic-Sea probably at the coast from Venice to the middle of Italy (by Rome, other side), as down the "boot" there were the colonies of Phoenician and Greek in Ancient days. MORONI was a very popular name (including variants as MORONE, MORRONE, MORRONI, etc.) up to the days of Jesus Christ.

MORONI was a Jew name, meaning MORO + NI, but as it is sabellian name, it is writes as NI + MORO.
NI = "humble" (small man, not "small" in size,hight, but "humble" man)
MORO is from Hebreu from the root of MARA, "bitter", as in MARY.
Thus MORO is bittered, suffered + humble man.
MORONI = bittered (suffered)=MORO humble=N man=I.

That from ISRAELITE NEPHITIC = very old Ancentral ITALIAN name (probably MORONI came from Greek and Phoenician stay period, Joel 3:6, thus arriving in Israel, but then written in Hebrew, not in Sabellian = Nephitic, something Jews don't understand).

Mormon = MOR + MON. Reads from fright to left. =
MON is MONtain in nephitic (even in French nowadays... MON matre is the MOUNT in which started Paris...).
MOR is the most important of all (even in military position, it is a word yet in use...).
MON MOR is the MON (mount) the MOST IMPORT OF ALL (as it is for religious purpose, it is the CALVARY Mount, in Jerusalem...)
MON MOR = Mormon = Mount CALVARY

I have so many "fancy NEPHITIC words" already written in NEphitic... and thus translated into nowadays languages (Latines and English)..

[_Buffalo]

Bump for apologists.

ELYSAB, you've made your statements, which I don't think most of us are interested in. I'd rather hear from actual apologists.

[_ELYSAB]

I guess now it is time for COMMENTARIES. But I guess this is open.

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