Gay Electroshock- and Vomit-Aversion Therapy at BYU

[Guest]

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[Guest]

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[_Corpsegrinder]

Nomad wrote:

Lovely. A group of exmormons contemplating murder.

You’d probably have to be a mother with kids of your own to understand, and I'm still an active Mormon.

Subgenius wrote:

so you keep asking, but with regards to this thread's OP.....what lie are you referring to?

I’ll start with this one…

You responded to the opening post with “This baby says boring.” You then went on to reinforce this theme with comments like “I read most of them and passed out from boredom” and “Truly insignificant to those except they who were victims” and “would you feel better if they were pushed out a window.” Your comments constitute a ruse intended to divert attention away from an article critical of the Church’s--and your own--homophobia. In effect you are saying “Move along folks, nothing to see here.”

As for the lies contained in FAIR’s rebuttal, I’ll start with the opening paragraph that you cut & pasted into one of your responses: The Church never conducted aversion therapy. It doesn't conduct psychological therapy of any type. The LDS Church is a church, not a medical institution. People who happen to be LDS or go to BYU do a great variety of things. The Church does not take responsibility for everything done by a Mormon or someone at BYU (not everyone at BYU is a Mormon).

BYU is owned, operated, and funded by the Church with the Prophet acting as chairman of BYU's board of trustees. To say the Church did not inflict aversion therapy on would be like saying the Mormon Militia that perpetrated Mountain Meadows Massacre were not Mormons.

1. an apologist for BYU i have never claimed to be, the position of the LDS Church is quite clear when it comes to the LGBT community.

On the contrary, before the Kook Faction rose to prominence among the Brethren, the Church was actually rather tolerant of practicing gay and lesbian members. This does not represent a “quite clear” policy.

Buffalo wrote:

Of all the shameful things the church has done, this is easily in the top five. Which is really saying something.

Abso-effing-lutely.

Nomad wrote:

All I can say is that it's a good thing exmormons don't have the power to do what they secretly want to do. I'm sure your solution to the "Mormon problem" would be a final one. The discussion you had in the rental car is telling in that respect.

A few facetious comments while waiting for a flight is a far cry from engineering a Holocaust-like “final” solution for the “Mormon problem.” Though, if you have substantial and compelling evidence to back this up I’d be fascinated if you’d share it with us. Thank you.

Hasa Diga Eebowai wrote:

It's a good job that Mormons historically didn't have the power to do what they secretly wanted to do with the US. The Mountain Meadows Massacre is a good example, with Vengeance Oaths and even the topic of the OP being examples of what happens when Mormonism has even a little power.

Colorado City offers an excellent example of what life is like in a Mormon theocracy.

[_subgenius]

Those who authorized this treatment should have served jail time. Sick, sick, sick.

What a long line for the jail, then.

This form of treatment has been in continuous operation since 1932. The treatment is discussed in the Principles of Addiction Medicine, Chapter 8, published by the American Society of Addiction Medicine in 2003. The American Psychological Association saw fit to endorse its practice for the treatment of "homosexuality" all the way up to 1994.

if only we could find the people who were "forced" to have the treatment, they are the real victims, not the bitter BYU student who in a childish tantrum wants to condemn the Church for allegedly conducting acceptable treatments on willing individuals.
Put your torch down.

[_subgenius]

Nomad wrote:

Lovely. A group of exmormons contemplating murder.

You’d probably have to be a mother with kids of your own to understand, and I'm still an active Mormon.

Subgenius wrote:

so you keep asking, but with regards to this thread's OP.....what lie are you referring to?

I’ll start with this one…

You responded to the opening post with “This baby says boring.” You then went on to reinforce this theme with comments like “I read most of them and passed out from boredom” and “Truly insignificant to those except they who were victims” and “would you feel better if they were pushed out a window.” Your comments constitute a ruse intended to divert attention away from an article critical of the Church’s--and your own--homophobia. In effect you are saying “Move along folks, nothing to see here.”

As for the lies contained in FAIR’s rebuttal, I’ll start with the opening paragraph that you cut & pasted into one of your responses: The Church never conducted aversion therapy. It doesn't conduct psychological therapy of any type. The LDS Church is a church, not a medical institution. People who happen to be LDS or go to BYU do a great variety of things. The Church does not take responsibility for everything done by a Mormon or someone at BYU (not everyone at BYU is a Mormon).

BYU is owned, operated, and funded by the Church with the Prophet acting as chairman of BYU's board of trustees. To say the Church did not inflict aversion therapy on would be like saying the Mormon Militia that perpetrated Mountain Meadows Massacre were not Mormons

So, now that we have established that it is your opinion that a lie occurred. When the simple fact and truth is that the Church did not conduct an of those experiments. They may have condoned it, may have even encouraged its practice, but the truth is that the Church did not conduct them; and no amount of conspiracy posturing will make your opinion true, it will just affirm that it is your opinion.
As for the absurdity in logic with your Mormon militia analogy...wait.... after i finish giggling.

Well, any other "lies", or are you just going to stick with the notion that the LDS President has his sinister hands firmly entwined with the puppet strings, especially with the 30+ other academic institutions that performed the same procedures?

How about a discussion about real victims......yawn

[_Chap]

... the Church did not conduct an[y] of those experiments. They may have condoned it, may have even encouraged its practice, but the truth is that the Church did not conduct them ...

I am delighted to hear that none of the First Presidency, or indeed any General Authority, was personally present to apply the electrodes. That leaves the CoJCoLDS completely in the clear.

[_Buffalo]

if only we could find the people who were "forced" to have the treatment, they are the real victims, not the bitter BYU student who in a childish tantrum wants to condemn the Church for allegedly conducting acceptable treatments on willing individuals.
Put your torch down.

Marshall Applewhite didn't force his followers to kill themselves. Neither did Jim Jones. I guess that means they weren't responsible in any way.

[_Buffalo]

So, now that we have established that it is your opinion that a lie occurred. When the simple fact and truth is that the Church did not conduct an of those experiments. They may have condoned it, may have even encouraged its practice, but the truth is that the Church did not conduct them; and no amount of conspiracy posturing will make your opinion true, it will just affirm that it is your opinion.
As for the absurdity in logic with your Mormon militia analogy...wait.... after i finish giggling.

Well, any other "lies", or are you just going to stick with the notion that the LDS President has his sinister hands firmly entwined with the puppet strings, especially with the 30+ other academic institutions that performed the same procedures?

How about a discussion about real victims......yawn

I hate to get all Godwinny, but Adolf Hitler didn't personally kill any Jews either. I guess that puts him in the clear.

[_NeoMorm]

1. certainly not all universities engaged in electroshock studies on homosexual men.

I missed where he said that? Maybe he meant some other universities have dome some controversial or questionable things?

2. any studies done by universities always have papers written about those studies. Where is BYU's paper on the electroshock studies?

Always? You are sure of that, all the other universities in the history of the world have ALWAYS published papers written about their studies... dizzying.

3. non-disclosure statements are definitely NOT the norm in university studies.

Really? http://www.utexas.edu/research/osp/indu ... _faqs.html (that was just the first thing that popped up on Google...)

Some of you all really want BYU to be the most evil university in the history of earth. How is this all different from Mormons wanting to believe in the Book of Mormon?

[_NeoMorm]

I hate to get all Godwinny, but Adolf Hitler didn't personally kill any Jews either. I guess that puts him in the clear.

Wow, now we're rounding up LGBT's and committing genocide? Yikes! Things move fast in this forum. I'd like to see some further escalation of this... Who can top the Holocaust?