Pornography Poll: Personal Issues

[_subgenius]

I have no idea what you mean by "right." Evolution doesn't have a right or wrong. It just is. There are plenty of things that have made it through the selection process that don't seem especially useful. That's just how it is.

not talking about "plenty of things"...we have a specific topic. But, obviously you are concluding that some sexual activity is "useless".

Obviously sexual intercourse has been highly successful for our species. I'm glad it was invented. The course of evolution has brought human beings to a place in time where we are very successful at surviving. Sexuality is displayed in a miriad of ways. Humans are social and we are pleasure seekers. Both of these traits are helpful from a survival standpoint. But since we are somewhat intelligent we are capable of enjoying pleasure and also minimizing risks. Procreation is a risk and the human family is not in any fear of going extinct any time soon.

obviously, pleasure is the incentive to procreate...we are "driven" to procreate....procreation is not the by-product...it is, as i stated earlier, the "end-game".

You've already shown that you accept the main reason that I would have said. Bonding. Sexual activity is a bonding experience. Humans are social creatures.

i was specific in terms of intimacy. "Bonding" is a reduction-ism which does not apply to these circumstances. Intimacy between a couple that has procreated is not equatable with people joining a three-legged race at a company picnic.

Another purpose is pleasure. Sexual activity is immensely pleasurable. Humans like to do things that cause pleasure. We really like to do pleasurable things together.

see above note on sexual pleasure. i do not subscribe to hedonism, it has many flaws and therefore is a weak support for your argument here.

What evidence are you looking for? I give as evidence the millions upon millions of humans who have non-procreative sex...and who have been doing it for thousands and thousands of years.

nonsense. just because they have been unsuccessful at procreation does not mean that the ultimate reason for sexual participation is not to satisfy the biological imperative of procreation. Surely, we can recognize that the desire is so strong that many people will perform all sorts of actions to "release" it....no man fantasizes about the sock nor does a women imagine the cucumber....the desire is driven by another, and that desire is a result of the "end game". The body wants to procreate, first and foremost. This is blatantly obvious by the fact that we are here.

I'm not sure what evidence you have to support your idea that someone who engages in oral sex has something wrong with them. I'd love to see it. Same goes for people who engage in sexual activity outside the 3 day fertility window a female has each month.

What about people who have sex after they are no longer fertile or who have never been fertile?

you confuse the exception with the rule.
besides, could that not easily be explained by cultural conditioning, or habit?
I mean, look at the impact of Viagra. Many post-menopausal women will say that this blue pill has caused then quite the burden. There is a natural cycle being disrupted (again), and with no virtue, simply a self-serving endeavor.

Do you include masturbation in this theory of yours or just partnered sexual activity?

see my above mention of sock and cucumber. masturbation is a perversion, or rather, an obvious symptom of one's lack of self-control. (see also Taoism)

Do you have any evidence at all to back up your assertion?

i think we both could waste time posting link after googled link of support for and against masturbation, too much masturbation, too little masturbation, the right way to masturbate, the wrong way to masturbate, the psychological effects of masturbation, when you should start masturbating, and when you should stop.....but that is not the point. I can easily concede that masturbation is a natural stop on the journey of human sexual development, but it is not the "end game".

A drive for non-procreative sex is a natural population control. Adults who do not produce their own offspring are available to help with the rearing of their nieces and nephews and other children of the tribe.

what tribe?
all children are not born at the same time, i know plenty of mothers who help other mothers and in turn get help from other mothers.

People who do not have pro-creative sex are naturally deselected from the gene pool.

unless non-procreative sex is a cultural condition, which opens the argument about whether or not that it is "natural". You also assume that non-procreative sex is a genetic condition. I am inclined to consider it as a psychological one...or likely, a choice otherwise.
And i do not consider free-agency to be from a gene.

Anyway, I haven't been rude to you.

Please, accept my apology. I am sorry.

[_LDSToronto]

obviously, pleasure is the incentive to procreate...we are "driven" to procreate....procreation is not the by-product...it is, as i stated earlier, the "end-game".

Do you include masturbation in this theory of yours or just partnered sexual activity?

see my above mention of sock and cucumber. masturbation is a perversion, or rather, an obvious symptom of one's lack of self-control. (see also Taoism)

Subgenius, you are being inconsistent here. You can't claim that pleasure is the incentive to procreate and then dismiss masturbation as perversion. Under your model, masturbation occurs for the very same reason that intercourse occurs - it is pleasurable.

H.

[_LDSToronto]

I'm not sure what evidence you have to support your idea that someone who engages in oral sex has something wrong with them. I'd love to see it. Same goes for people who engage in sexual activity outside the 3 day fertility window a female has each month.

What about people who have sex after they are no longer fertile or who have never been fertile?

you confuse the exception with the rule.
besides, could that not easily be explained by cultural conditioning, or habit?
I mean, look at the impact of Viagra. Many post-menopausal women will say that this blue pill has caused then quite the burden. There is a natural cycle being disrupted (again), and with no virtue, simply a self-serving endeavor.

Mr. Genuis, I'd respectfully suggest that one who calls oral sex and sex outside the fertility window "the exception with the rule" clearly has no idea what the meaning of "exception" is, amongst other things.


H.

[_subgenius]

Bonobos have sex for all kinds of reasons, reproduction being just one of many:

http://www.primatesworld.com/bonobos.html

Speculative...not one Bonobo was interviewed nor was there any evidence that the theories are any more substantive than my psych professor who claimed that the purpose of all human action is to facilitate "sleeping".

http://youtu.be/Icq0LlvtEy0

[_subgenius]

...
Subgenius, you are being inconsistent here. You can't claim that pleasure is the incentive to procreate and then dismiss masturbation as perversion. Under your model, masturbation occurs for the very same reason that intercourse occurs - it is pleasurable.

H.

and yet, i already conceded the point that masturbation may be a natural stage of sexual development.....
to continue with masturbation after being sexually matured is a perversion.
so, yes, it can be dismissed after it has run its course.

[_subgenius]

...
Mr. Genuis, I'd respectfully suggest that one who calls oral sex and sex outside the fertility window "the exception with the rule" clearly has no idea what the meaning of "exception" is, amongst other things.


H.

admittedly, i am unclear on what you are saying here.

[_Buffalo]

...
Subgenius, you are being inconsistent here. You can't claim that pleasure is the incentive to procreate and then dismiss masturbation as perversion. Under your model, masturbation occurs for the very same reason that intercourse occurs - it is pleasurable.

H.

and yet, i already conceded the point that masturbation may be a natural stage of sexual development.....
to continue with masturbation after being sexually matured is a perversion.
so, yes, it can be dismissed after it has run its course.

Nah, continued masturbation prevents prostate cancer and results in healthier fetuses, as old sperm are ejected more frequently, leaving fresher sperms to create fresher babies that will go on to be fresher priesthood holders. Hold to the rod, Elder.

[_LDSToronto]

...
Subgenius, you are being inconsistent here. You can't claim that pleasure is the incentive to procreate and then dismiss masturbation as perversion. Under your model, masturbation occurs for the very same reason that intercourse occurs - it is pleasurable.

H.

and yet, i already conceded the point that masturbation may be a natural stage of sexual development.....
to continue with masturbation after being sexually matured is a perversion.
so, yes, it can be dismissed after it has run its course.

What does sexual maturity have to do with continuation/cessation of masturbation; given masturbation seeks the same goal as intercourse - pleasure?

H.

[_LDSToronto]

...
Mr. Genuis, I'd respectfully suggest that one who calls oral sex and sex outside the fertility window "the exception with the rule" clearly has no idea what the meaning of "exception" is, amongst other things.


H.

admittedly, i am unclear on what you are saying here.

Let's back up a bit. Do you believe that oral sex or sex outside of the procreative window is, in your words, "the exception with the rule"? I presume "the rule" being that all sexual activity is entered into with the goal of producing offspring?

H.

[_just me]

I may take the time to post a more indepth comment when I have time.

For now, I would really like to see some sort of evidence for this claim you made, subgenius.

You said, when speaking of anything outside of procreative sexual activity:

Anything else must be a genetic mishap or a psychological retardation of development.

I am really looking forward to reading more about this from whatever resource you got the idea from.

Considering the scientific research that shows females are equally sexually aroused by viewing hetero and gay/lesbian sexual activity are you of the belief that all females are suffering from a genetic mishap or some kind of psychological retardation?

I need to mention this comment from you, as well.

I mean, look at the impact of Viagra. Many post-menopausal women will say that this blue pill has caused then quite the burden. There is a natural cycle being disrupted (again), and with no virtue, simply a self-serving endeavor.

Are you of the belief that post-menopausal women are sexless...or that their natural state is sexlessness? Do you realize that there are post-menopausal woman who have actually ASKED thier mate to try Viagra...or anything...to get sex back in their relationship?

And I am CFRing that "many" PM women say that they have been burdened by Viagra. Many meaning a large portion of the group. Not just, oh yeah a hundred women said that, but 1000 were super happy.