Michael Ash - Shaken Faith Syndrome

[_Themis]

Could you explain how one discerns or recognizes the holy Ghost is communicating with them?

This was asked of Jo but I will add a comment or two.

When we have an idea we have a sense that it came from us. It has a quality about it that we understand it came from us. Then other times like in a dream state we can have a conversation with someone and then when we are more awake we ask our self if we had a conversation. We feel that a second party was involved. It has a quality of a conversation and not a personal thought. With me I ask for many answers from the Holy Spirit. I receive very few. These can come years after I ask and many times it confirms what has already taken place in my life. This is in line with the Holy Spirit being a witness and not a guide. Although the Holy Spirit can be a guide as well.

The other issue is the source of thoughts that enter our mind. Can thoughts be inserted in our head so that they pass before our mind as a tempting treat? I think they can. These are more direct and can come from evil or good. I would think that most of the thoughts we have are our own but I know that some do come from another. This is part of being tested. I do not think that these kind of thoughts have a quality of a conversation but as being inserted. I believe that many people embrace these thoughts as their own and consider them self wicked when some odd thought runs through their brain. Of course these are personal observations and I do not know if in general they are true.

Your comments only focus on thoughts even though the spiritual experience has many more facets. The brain is very complex and capable of many things. Certainly people can feel thoughts not originating from them like the eureka moments. Also what is the conscious mind and subconscious and how may they interact? Could information coming from the subconscious feel like it comes from someone else? Does it contain information we are not aware of? This really does not answer the question of how one can discern/recognize they are communicating with the HG.

[_Corpsegrinder]

To All:

Is Corpse the only one who misunderstood my comment?

Love,

jo

Edited for clarification: Is Corpse the only guy who misunderstood my comment?

Yes, I’m a little slow like that, but then I don’t think anybody else really understands what the heck you’re talking about, either. As someone who has achieved “this type of continual communication with the Holy Ghost,” how do you determine the point at which your personal opinions end and “communication” with the Holy Ghost begins? I ask because you seem to feel no compunction against injecting a great deal of personal opinion into your posts without clearly identifying it as such.

I will also repeat the question that have so pointedly avoided answering: Does Robert Millet’s “bait-and-switch” tactic for deflecting questions away from embarrassing aspects of Church history ultimately undermine the Church’s credibility?

[_Franktalk]

Your comments only focus on thoughts even though the spiritual experience has many more facets. The brain is very complex and capable of many things. Certainly people can feel thoughts not originating from them like the eureka moments. Also what is the conscious mind and subconscious and how may they interact? Could information coming from the subconscious feel like it comes from someone else? Does it contain information we are not aware of? This really does not answer the question of how one can discern/recognize they are communicating with the HG.

I may have added to the confusion with my comments. Let me step back for a moment and lay some ground work. We are here to know good from evil. The light of Christ or as I call it our moral rudder can discern good from evil. But we can listen to it or ignore it. But discernment requires that we love God. Let me outline the progression that takes place that leads to discernment.

1. We love God - When one recognizes that there is a God and forms a view of our place verses God's place one can start to love God for who He is.
2. We understand that it is God that holds the power for everything. Everything we see and touch came into being as a result of God's work.
3. We trust God - With a mixture of fear for the power of God and the love of God for allowing us this life in the flesh we trust that He has our best interest at heart. This is an extension of the love of God. Blind trust that He who makes the universe and sets the laws loves us and wishes us the best life possible. But we must know Him well enough to know that what He desires is not for the world but for us as a spirit. This is separate from the world. We must see that God is focused on our spirit and not the world. We may not even know what a spirit is at this point.
4. We cast off the world - So far things have been easy and most get to stage 3. But this one is not easy. You must embrace that this world is but a temporary existence for our spirit to learn. You must cut the ties that bind with the world. Your own body is of the world and is not you. It is a shell and nothing more. You feel lost and not attached to anything. You wonder why am I here. You lose your footing in the world, it becomes distant, it appears as an illusion. A fog that surrounds you and you see it as distant. You stop your emotional attachment to the world but you start to see others as spirits. You separate out what you see from what is actually there. Everything around you has been placed there by God so that you can enjoy it or as a test for you. Evil and good get divided sharply. The spiritual discernment which you hear about is so near. The world stands between you and spiritual discernment. You must remove the world before the spirit will talk with you. The spirit talks to spirit. The spirit does not talk to the world. Remove the world and the door opens. The door was always opened but the world stood in the way. The ideas of men lose their hold on you. The things that most men hold as truth become just ideas and nothing more. What you thought you knew becomes wrong or just words of men. If this does not happen then you have not cast off the world. Those who say that they can do both, hold the truth of man, and hold the truth of God are fools.
5. The world will hate you - The world is not your friend and has never been your friend. If you embraced the world it gave you treats to keep you. But when the world knows you have cast it off you become a target. So get ready. With spiritual discernment comes spiritual warfare. When some get a taste of this they run back to the world. You must have spiritual strength. I ask for strength daily and I need it. Some get to this point and fear overwhelms them as they even think of casting off the world. Satan and his workers will know what you are doing. Things will happen that don't make sense. In time spiritual discernment will sort out all of the confusion but some will run back to what is solid and what is familiar.
6. Scripture opens - When your eyes are opened by the spirit you will see more, hear more, and feel more.

[_Themis]

I may have added to the confusion with my comments.

Unfortunately most of what you type is confusing rambling. It also does not really deal with the discussion at hand.

Let me step back for a moment and lay some ground work. We are here to know good from evil.

Why should an investigator believe this? It makes assumptions of God's existence and purpose that are not reasonable to believe unless you can provide good reasons to believe.

The light of Christ or as I call it our moral rudder can discern good from evil. But we can listen to it or ignore it. But discernment requires that we love God. Let me outline the progression that takes place that leads to discernment.

Light of Christ is another assumption that is not reasonable to believe for an investigator. It is also obvious that people do not agree with what is right or wrong. This is especially true for sex, which for LDS is the second worse thing one can do. Children who grow up in a community with different views on sex do not have any so called light of Christ that says what their community believes is wrong.

1. We love God - When one recognizes that there is a God and forms a view of our place verses God's place one can start to love God for who He is.

Your problem here is when your investigator is not a Christian.

2. We understand that it is God that holds the power for everything. Everything we see and touch came into being as a result of God's work.

And how did you come by this understanding? This really goes to the main question I asked earlier.

The rest is mostly meaningless rambling, although this part makes me wonder if you are LDS since it clearly goes against LDS doctrine.

Your own body is of the world and is not you. It is a shell and nothing more.

This is a doctrine of some Christian groups who do not believe resurrection involves getting your physical body back.

Now how about we get back to the issue

Themis

Could you explain how one discerns or recognizes the holy Ghost is communicating with them?

[_Franktalk]

...Why should an investigator believe this? It makes assumptions of God's existence and purpose that are not reasonable to believe unless you can provide good reasons to believe....

Spoken like a person of the world. I hope that works for you.

[_Franktalk]

Could you explain how one discerns or recognizes the holy Ghost is communicating with them?

I did. It was your blind eyes that did not see the answer.

[_Themis]

...Why should an investigator believe this? It makes assumptions of God's existence and purpose that are not reasonable to believe unless you can provide good reasons to believe....

Spoken like a person of the world. I hope that works for you.

So another words you can't provide good reasons to believe and blame the investigator if they don't believe as you do without any good reasons for doing so.

I did. It was your blind eyes that did not see the answer.

No you did not. You want one to become a member for years believing all the claims without any good reasons for doing so before they will get some spiritual enlightenment. This is unreasonable, and a claim made by a number of different religious groups. LDS do not make this claim, which is why I wonder if you are LDS. Are you?

I guess we will have to see if Jo has any real answers.

[_Buffalo]

...Why should an investigator believe this? It makes assumptions of God's existence and purpose that are not reasonable to believe unless you can provide good reasons to believe....

Spoken like a person of the world. I hope that works for you.

Worldiness in this case being defined as, lack of requisite gullibility.

[_Franktalk]

So another words you can't provide good reasons to believe and blame the investigator if they don't believe as you do without any good reasons for doing so.

The reasons I have the faith I do you would not accept as reasons. They are foolishness to you. For instance:

I see the power of God behind everything in the creation.

Man is confused and has little understanding of anything.

Truth is not in this world.

[_harmony]

Man is confused and has little understanding of anything.

Well, I can get behind this, especially the men in charge of the church.

Truth is not in this world.

Say what? You realize you just put the prophet up against a wall and called him a liar?