Let's Talk Rainbows

[_Melchett]

SH. Thanks for picking up my slack. I went to the mopologist for an answer.

[Guest]

Since LDS.org seems to be the definitive, authoritative answer I will quote LDS.org pages.

Moses 8

28 The earth was corrupt before God, and it was filled with violence.

29 And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt, for all flesh had corrupted its away upon the earth.

30 And God said unto Noah: The end of all flesh is come before me, for the earth is filled with violence, and behold I will destroy all flesh from off the earth.

Genesis 6

5 ¶And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

6 And it repented the Lord that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

7 And the Lord said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

Note the use of the word ALL twice in Moses 8:30 vs the similar verse on Genesis 6:7. Guess god did through Joseph have an opportunity to clarify things.

Sub, How many times does it have to be repeated by the prophets before it crosses the threshold of personal opinion into doctrine? Would you like me to start referencing lesson manuals?

[Guest]

The Book of Moses
The Pearl of Great Price Student Manual, (2000), 3–27
http://LDS.org/manual/the-pearl-of-grea ... ah+baptism

The book of Moses may be divided into two major sections: Moses 1, which relates experiences from Moses’ life that are not found in the book of Genesis, and Moses 2–8, which contains the inspired and restored account of events described in the Bible, including the Creation of the earth; the Fall of Adam and Eve; the story of Cain and Abel; the ministry, teachings, and visions of Enoch; and the story of Noah up to the time the Lord decreed the destruction of all flesh by the Flood. At this point, one must return to Genesis 6:14 for a continuation of the scriptural record.

Genesis 6–10; Moses 8
Old Testament Teacher Resource Manual, (2003), 37–39
http://LDS.org/manual/old-testament-tea ... ah+baptism

Elder Bruce R. McConkie wrote that “from Adam to Noah, like rolling crashes of thunder, each louder than the one before, evil and carnality and wickedness increased until ‘every man was lifted up in the imagination of the thoughts of his heart, being only evil continually’ [Moses 8:22]” (The Millennial Messiah: The Second Coming of the Son of Man [1982], 359). At the time of Noah the earth was “filled with violence” and “all flesh had corrupted its way upon the earth” (Moses 8:28–29). In an act of mercy for the earth and for future generations, God told Noah: “The end of all flesh is come before me, for the earth is filled with violence, and behold I will destroy all flesh from off the earth” (v. 30). Elder John A. Widtsoe, who was a member of the Quorum of the Twelve, taught: “Latter-day Saints look upon the earth as a living organism, one which is gloriously filling ‘the measure of its creation.’ They look upon the flood as a baptism of the earth, symbolizing a cleansing of the impurities of the past, and the beginning of a new life” (Evidences and Reconciliations, arr. G. Homer Durham, 3 vols. in 1 [1960], 127).
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The scriptural account of the Flood uses language similar to that used to describe the Creation. Read Genesis 7:10, 14; 8:17, 20–21; 9:1, 3 and ask students how these verses are similar to verses about the Creation. What additional insights do the similarities between these two accounts provide regarding the purpose of the Flood? The Flood, like baptism, represented a new beginning for the earth.

See the previous references to the baptism by immersion. LDS doctrine teaches of the necessity of baptism by immersion, this has been repeatedly applied referencing the baptism of the Earth being; the whole Earth was under water, "baptized" e.g. immersed.

Genesis 6; Moses 8: Noah's Preaching
Old Testament Seminary Student Study Guide, (2002), 18–19
http://LDS.org/manual/old-testament-sem ... ah+baptism

The scriptures speak of two separate times when the Lord would cleanse the earth of wickedness. The first was at the time of Noah (see Genesis 6) and the second will be at the Second Coming. Joseph Smith—Matthew 1:41–43, in the Pearl of Great Price, tells ways those two time periods will be like each other. The biggest difference in the two periods is that the earth was cleansed by water in the days of Noah, and at the Second Coming it will be cleansed by fire. These two events are a type of how we are cleansed by the baptism of water and the baptism of fire—the cleansing of the soul that occurs when we truly receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.Genesis 6–9 tells the story of Noah and the Flood. As you read, look for reasons the Lord destroyed the wicked and why destroying them was the best possible thing He could do for the salvation of all His children. Also consider how the days of Noah might be compared to our day—the time before the earth is cleansed by fire.Moses 8 is the Joseph Smith Translation of Genesis 5:23–6:13, so you will want to read Moses 8 before reading Genesis 6:14–22. Notice that Moses 8 is the last chapter of Moses in the Pearl of Great Price. For the rest of the Old Testament, all references to the Joseph Smith Translation will be in your footnotes or at the back of your Bible (beginning on p. 777)
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Moses 8; Genesis 6—Why the Lord Flooded the Earth

President John Taylor helped explain why the Lord decided to destroy all people on earth except the family of Noah. President Taylor suggested that the world was so wicked that children grew up with no choice but to be wicked. At that point where there is no chance to choose righteousness, sending innocent spirits from heaven to earth is no longer just. Consequently, the Lord destroyed all the wicked and began again with the family of Noah to raise up righteous men and women. “By taking away their earthly existence he prevented them from entailing [give as an inheritance] their sins upon their posterity and degenerating them [making them wicked], and also prevented them from committing further acts of wickedness” (in Journal of Discourses, 19:158–59). If God had not flooded the earth, His great plan could not be fulfilled. Read what Nephi said in 2 Nephi 26:24 about why the Lord acts as He does.

Does it qualify as doctrine yet or do you need me to provide more references of the church teaching a global flood?

[_Darth J]

Old Testament Student Manual, Genesis--2 Samuel, "Genesis 1-2---The Creation" Points to Ponder (2-19):

"The Flood and subsequent cataclysms drastically changed the topography and geography of the earth. The descendants of Noah evidently named some rivers, and perhaps other landmarks, after places they had known before the Flood. This theory would explain why rivers in Mesopotamia now bear the names of rivers originally on the American continent. It is also possible that some present river systems are remnants of the antediluvian river systems on the one great continent that existed then."

[_Darth J]

i suggest you confirm via LDS.org and search for the term "global flood".

http://LDS.org/search?lang=eng&query=%22global+flood%22

"The Flood and the Tower of Babel," January 1998 Ensign

There is a third group of people—those who accept the literal message of the Bible regarding Noah, the ark, and the Deluge. Latter-day Saints belong to this group. In spite of the world’s arguments against the historicity of the Flood, and despite the supposed lack of geologic evidence, we Latter-day Saints believe that Noah was an actual man, a prophet of God, who preached repentance and raised a voice of warning, built an ark, gathered his family and a host of animals onto the ark, and floated safely away as waters covered the entire earth. We are assured that these events actually occurred by the multiple testimonies of God’s prophets.

[_SteelHead]

Sub, I can keep providing references. If this does not meet the threshold of being often enough repeated through various church materials, and over the pulpit of conference by the church's highest authorities, then nothing does. By your definition the church has NO doctrine at all whatsoever.

[_just me]

QUESTION!

If the flood was NOT global, what was the covenant/promise deal with the rainbow?

If it was a promise never to allow a LOCAL flood again...hasn't that been broken about a million times?

[_SteelHead]

JST Genesis 6

Chapter 6 (Moses 8:13–30)
1 And Noah and his sons hearkened unto the Lord, and gave heed, and they were called the sons of God. And when these men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,
OT1 And it came to pass that Noah and his sons hearkened unto the Lord, and gave heed, and they were called the sons of God. And when these men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,
2 That the sons of men saw that their daughters were fair; they took them wives even as they chose. And the Lord said unto Noah: The daughters of thy sons have sold themselves; for behold mine anger is kindled against the sons of men, for they will not hearken to my voice. And it came to pass that Noah prophesied, and taught the things of God, even as it was in the beginning.
3 And the Lord said unto Noah: My Spirit shall not always strive with man, for he shall know that all flesh shall die; yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years; and if men do not repent, I will send in the floods upon them.
4 And in those days there were giants on the earth, and they sought Noah to take away his life; but the Lord was with Noah, and the power of the Lord was upon him. And the Lord ordained Noah after his own order, and commanded him that he should go forth and declare his Gospel unto the children of men, even as it was given unto Enoch. And it came to pass that Noah called upon the children of men that they should repent; but they hearkened not unto his words; And also, after that they had heard him, they came up before him, saying: Behold, we are the sons of God; have we not taken unto ourselves daughters of men? And are we not eating and drinking, and marrying and given in marriage? And our wives bare unto us children, and the same are mighty men, which are like unto them of old, men of great renown. And they hearkened not unto the words of Noah.
OT1 And in those days there were giants on the earth, and they sought Noah to take away his life; but the Lord was with Noah, and the power of the Lord was upon him. And the Lord ordained Noah after his own order, and commanded him that he should go forth and declare his Gospel unto the children of men, even as it was given unto Enoch. And it came to pass that Noah called upon men that they should repent; but they hearkened not unto his words; And also, after that they had heard him, they came up before him, saying: Behold, we are the sons of God; have we not taken unto ourselves the daughters of men? And are we not eating and drinking, and marrying and given in marriage? And our wives bare unto us children, and the same are mighty men, which are like unto them of old, men of great renown. And they hearkened not unto the words of Noah.
5 And God saw that the wickedness of man had become great in the earth; and every man was lifted up in the imagination of the thoughts of his heart, being only evil continually. And it came to pass that Noah continued his preaching unto the people, saying: Hearken, and give heed unto my words; Believe and repent of your sins and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ, the Son of God, even as our fathers did, and ye shall receive the Holy Ghost, that ye may have all things made manifest; and if ye do not this, the floods will come in upon you; nevertheless they hearkened not.
OT1 And God saw that the wickedness of man had become great in the earth; and every man was lifted up in the imagination of the thoughts of his heart, being only evil continually. And it came to pass that Noah continued his preaching unto the people, saying: Hearken, and give heed unto my words; Believe and repent of your sins and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ, the Son of God, even as our fathers did, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost, that ye may have all things made manifest; and if ye do not do this, the floods will come in upon you; nevertheless they hearkened not.
6 And it repented Noah, and his heart was pained that the Lord made man on the earth, and it grieved him at the heart.
OT1 And it repented Noah, and his heart was pained that the Lord had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
7 And the Lord said: I will destroy man whom I have created, from the face of the earth, both men and beasts, and the creeping things, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth Noah that I have created them, and that I have made them; and he hath called upon me; for they have sought his life.
OT1 And the Lord said: I will destroy man whom I have created, from the face of the earth, both man and beast, and the creeping things, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth Noah that I have created them, and that I have made them; and he hath called upon me; and they have sought his life.
8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.
9 For Noah was a just man, and perfect in his generation; and he walked with God,
OT1 And Noah was a just man, and perfect in his generations; and Noah walked with God,
10 And also his three sons, Shem, Ham, Japheth.
OT1 And also his three sons, Shem, Ham, and Japheth.
11 But the earth was corrupt before God, it was filled with violence.
12 And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted its way upon the earth.
13 And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence; and, behold, I will destroy all flesh from off the earth.
14 Make thee therefore an ark of gopher wood; rooms shalt thou make in the ark, and thou shalt pitch it within and without with pitch.
OT1 Make thee an ark of gopher wood; rooms shall thou make in the ark, and shalt pitch it within and without with pitch.
15 And the length of the ark thou shalt make three hundred cubits, the breadth of it fifty cubits, and the height of it thirty cubits.
16 And windows shalt thou make to the ark, and in a cubit shalt thou finish it above; and the door of the ark shalt thou set in the side thereof; lower, second, and third chambers shalt thou make in it.
17 And, behold, I, even I, will bring in a flood of water upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; every thing that liveth on the earth shall die.
OT1 And, behold, I, even I, do bring in a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein shall be the breath of life, from under heaven every thing that liveth on the earth shall die.
18 But with thee will I establish my covenant; even as I have sworn unto thy father Enoch, that a remnant16 of thy posterity should come all nations. And thou shalt come into the ark, thou, and thy sons, and thy wife, and thy sons' wives with thee.
OT1 But with thee will I establish my covenant; even as I have sworn unto thy father Enoch that a remnant of thy posterity should be preserved among all nations which shall come and thou shalt come into the ark, thou, and thy sons, and thy wife, and thy sons' wives with thee.
19 And of every living thing of all flesh, two of every kind shalt thou bring into the ark, to keep alive with thee; they shall be male and female.
20 Of fowls after their kind, and of cattle after their kind, of every creeping thing of the earth after his kind, two of every kind shalt thou take into the ark to keep alive.
21 And take thou unto thee of all food that is eaten, and thou shalt gather fruit of every kind unto thee in the ark; and it shall be for food for thee, and for them.
22 Thus did Noah; according to all that God commanded him.
OT1 Thus did Noah; according to all that God commanded him, even so. Amen.

Notice the multiple additions of the word ALL. I can keep going, I can provide a deluge of authoritative Mormon teachings supporting a global flood.

[Guest]

SG,
Jeffrey Holland in the Ensign in 1976:

Holy scripture records that “after the waters had receded from off the face of this land it became a choice land above all other lands, a chosen land of the Lord; wherefore the Lord would have that all men should serve him who dwell upon the face thereof.” (Ether 13:2.)

Such a special place needed now to be kept apart from other regions, free from the indiscriminate traveler as well as the soldier of fortune.

To guarantee such sanctity the very surface of the earth was rent. In response to God’s decree, the great continents separated and the ocean rushed in to surround them.

The promised place was set apart. Without habitation it waited for the fulfillment of God’s special purposes.

So this Book of Mormon scripture, interpreted by a living General Authority, tells us that during the Flood of Noah, water covered the face of the land in the western hemisphere. Sounds global to me.

[_subgenius]

I know i have already posted that the authorities are likely to take the stance of a more straightforward reading of the scriptures as they apply to the notion of a "global" flood, even with that stance being towards a larger lesson from the story.
Nevertheless, i stand by my position that a member can still be found in good standing if they subscribe to a less literal view of the expanse of the flood, or even if they consider that the notion of "global" meant something vastly different then than it does now.
The links i have provided are evidence that my position is more accurate within the church than the balderdash being posted to the contrary.

and yet i am still waiting for that evidence which proves that the laws of refraction which bring about rainbows have always been present on this earth...i mean i would even be content if someone could prove them from just the second day of creation onward.