Michael Ash - Shaken Faith Syndrome

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_jo1952
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Re: Michael Ash - Shaken Faith Syndrome

Post by _jo1952 »

Themis wrote:
Unfortunately this does not answer my question. Perhaps you could expand on this statement you made. Another words how does one become aware of the HG?


Hi Themis,

Actually my comments do answer your question. You are just not yet ready to hear it. This is why Jesus taught, "He that has ears, let him hear."

1st and 2nd John are excellent scriptures to study. Also, Paul has a plethora of spiritual information. The same problem will occur for you, though. Until you are ready to hear and understand what people are trying to share in the experiencing of the Holy Ghost, you will not get it.

I would offer that you humbly and sincerely seek for Truth about God by getting on your knees and praying to your Heavenly Father in the name of Jesus Christ. It will be the Holy Ghost who will respond to you, as Truth can only come from Him while we are on the earth. You have heard the Gospel message. Now it is up to you to develop hope that it is true; it is up to you to take a leap of faith and expercise your hope and faith that Jesus is indeed the Christ. I can only tell you what I have already told you. I cannot convince you of truth. I do not have that power or authority. It is the Holy Ghost who holds this power and authority on the earth. Father will know if the intent of your heart is pure in your seeking. He cannot be fooled by false attempts or half-hearted role-playing, If you are truly humble and sincerely seeking truth, He will not withhold truth from you and will instruct the Holy Ghost to respond to you. And you will know when this has taken place.

At that point, you will no longer be seeking other people's instructions, or questioning "how" anymore. This is because you will have experienced it for yourself. It is not something which spoken words can describe. Nor is it worldly. It is a communication between the Holy Ghost and your spirit. It is a super-natural experience which does not have an earthly duplicatable comparison.

Good luck.

Love,

jo
_jo1952
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Re: Michael Ash - Shaken Faith Syndrome

Post by _jo1952 »

Hasa Diga Eebowai wrote:
If not through being directed to interpret specific feelings and thoughts as the Holy Ghost how does a person on their own come to that conclusion?

Thanks,

Hasa Diga Eebowai


Hi HDE,

It takes a humble, sincere, prayerful seeking for truth. Once you have experienced the Holy Ghost, it will become easier and easier to distinguish. A lot of information has already been shared on this thread to help others experience this joyful method of receiving truth. No one else can lead you to experience the Holy Ghost. This quest is between you and Father personally.

Love,

jo
_emilysmith
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Re: Michael Ash - Shaken Faith Syndrome

Post by _emilysmith »

What if you try that and it doesn't work?
_jo1952
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Re: Michael Ash - Shaken Faith Syndrome

Post by _jo1952 »

emilysmith wrote:What if you try that and it doesn't work?


Hi Emily,

Can you share what you have done to seek God? At that time(s) were you seeking Him in anger? In hope? In sincerity? With doubt? With faith? What were the circumstances? Where were you? What was the true intent of your heart? Why were you seeking God?

Love,

jo
_Corpsegrinder
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Re: Michael Ash - Shaken Faith Syndrome

Post by _Corpsegrinder »

emilysmith wrote:What if you try that and it doesn't work?

According to jo, you were doing it wrong.

But don't worry, jo is here to straighten you out.
_jo1952
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Re: Michael Ash - Shaken Faith Syndrome

Post by _jo1952 »

kairos wrote:jo

i , and perhaps others here, would like to hear/read your personal conversion/re-birth story- what u were before the experience, what specifically happened/where/how, and what changed/is continuing to change even now.

thanx
k


Hi Kairos,

I will try to give you the shortened version since it would take volumes to tell you my history.

I cannot remember a time in my life when I did not love Jesus. He has always been a course I followed. I have been cognizant that in childhood through to today, my actions have been influenced by my belief in Him; I tried very hard to live the Golden Rule (do unto others as you would have others do unto you). I was raised in the Lutheran faith, and had been reading the Bible from the time I learned how to read.

When I was 13 I took a class my Pastor taught to prepare young boys and girls for taking their first communion. That was when I first realized that what the Lutheran church believed was not what the Bible had taught me. I was disappointed to learn these things, but continued to go to church according to their tradition because I didn't know how else to be able to worship God. Over the next nine years, I searched other denominations trying to find one which taught the same thing the Bible taught me. I was already familiar with experiencing the Holy Ghost and found great joy in rejoicing in my Savior, Jesus Christ.

When I was 22 years old, I was accepted into a new multi-denominational music company being formed for the purpose of performing an orignal conversion story of a man finding God. Many of the members were Mormons - a denomination which I was not familiar with. Their example of following and striving to live like Christ, as well as their great love for their Father and their Savior, attracted me to them. One of the young women, who was a friend from high school, arranged to have missionaries come to my house when I professed interest in what her beliefs were.

I read the Book of Mormon and listened to all the discussions. This was the first church who taught the same interpretations from the Bible which the Bible had taught me in my personal studies. When I fasted and prayed about the Book of Mormon I received a very powerful witness from the Holy Ghost which seemed to enter me from the top of my head and flowed through my entire body. Now, I was married at the time, having married only two years out of high school. But I was not in love my husband, as I married in order to escape my home. The concept of being married to someone I was not in love with throughout eternity scared me to death. I explained to the missionaries that even though I had received such a strong witness from the Holy Ghost, that I could not join the Church.

After a few months had gone by, I could no longer deny the witness I had received. I was in great despair as I could just not imagine myself going through eternity with this husband I was not in love with. Finally, I got on my knees to talk about this issue with Father. Eventually I got to the point where I expressed my faith in Him and basically put my life in His hands. I told Him whatever His will was for me, that I would accept it; but I would need His strength since I knew I was not strong enough to face an uncertain future by myself.

Though I had not planned it, within six months we were divorced. He went on to serve a mission as we had had no children. Today he is a Bishop. As for myself, I was on fire! I couldn't get enough scripture study, I couldn't get enough in building my relationship with Father, which had blossomed and grown more than at any other time in my life. I had more frequent witnesses of the Holy Ghost than I had ever had before joining the Church. I became able to discern even the quieter promptings He gave me. I loved living the Gospel in the LDS Church. No other denomination had offered a 24/7 way to live my life following the example of my Savior, Jesus Christ. There simply is no other denomination that I have ever found which is so completely dedicated to helping members manifest a way to show my love of God with heart, mind, body, and soul.

In recent years, I have found that all of the studying, all of the pondering, all of the prayers, and all of the guidance of the Holy Ghost has collectively brought me to a point where my understanding and my spiritual development has exploded exponentially. Whereas before I would uncover hidden meanings in scripture everytime I read them, by seeing or getting something I had not seen there before. Now, it seems that the layers and layers, the types, the patterns, the "meat" is now being revealed to me in such ways that I cannot begin to explain with mere words.

My ability to love God and to love others has come to the point where I no longer see the world or the people in it in a physical way. Everything I see, hear, experience, is now through spiritual eyes. It is beautiful, and awesome, and Holy, and humbling, and edifying, and joyful. My cup runneth over...and I feel as though I have only captured a very small glimpse of Kingdom of Heaven. It is mind blowing.

Love,

jo
_jo1952
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Re: Michael Ash - Shaken Faith Syndrome

Post by _jo1952 »

Corpsegrinder wrote:
emilysmith wrote:What if you try that and it doesn't work?

According to jo, you were doing it wrong.

But don't worry, jo is here to straighten you out.


Hi Corpsegrinder,

Actually those are your words, not mine. The questions I asked Emily were so that I could understand where she was coming from.

You do enjoy using anti-LDS tactics against other LDS, even though your claim is that you are not doing so. It has been my experience that people's actions speak louder than their words. Actions speak what is in the heart.

What has happened to you that causes you to react in this way? If you are this disillusioned with the LDS Church, perhaps you would be happier in some other denomination, and find the comfort and peace you are seeking. The contention you manifest is not of God.

Love,

jo
_jo1952
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Re: Michael Ash - Shaken Faith Syndrome

Post by _jo1952 »

Corpsegrinder wrote:
Here’s where I’m coming from: I'm extremely skeptical and leery toward people who publically proclaim an intimacy with or “continual communication” with the Holy Ghost.

I consider such people to be potentially very dangerous.


I do not know of anyone who has had "continual communication" with the Holy Ghost. Aside from that, why are you extremely skeptical and leery toward those who have claimed so?

Why do you consider these people to be potentially very dangerous?


So…if a med student who was interested in brain surgery asked you about the Circle of Willis, you’d answer him with an impromptu lecture about why baptism is so important? Right?


I do not understand why you are asking such bizarre questions. Do you?

Love,

jo
_Themis
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Re: Michael Ash - Shaken Faith Syndrome

Post by _Themis »

jo1952 wrote:
Themis wrote:
Unfortunately this does not answer my question. Perhaps you could expand on this statement you made. Another words how does one become aware of the HG?


Hi Themis,

Actually my comments do answer your question. You are just not yet ready to hear it. This is why Jesus taught, "He that has ears, let him hear."


Ahh the old dodge. Just remember, you can use this excuse in any religion, Christian or not.

1st and 2nd John are excellent scriptures to study. Also, Paul has a plethora of spiritual information. The same problem will occur for you, though. Until you are ready to hear and understand what people are trying to share in the experiencing of the Holy Ghost, you will not get it.


but you really haven't shared yet. :)

I would offer that you humbly and sincerely seek for Truth about God by getting on your knees and praying to your Heavenly Father in the name of Jesus Christ. It will be the Holy Ghost who will respond to you, as Truth can only come from Him while we are on the earth. You have heard the Gospel message. Now it is up to you to develop hope that it is true; it is up to you to take a leap of faith and expercise your hope and faith that Jesus is indeed the Christ. I can only tell you what I have already told you. I cannot convince you of truth. I do not have that power or authority. It is the Holy Ghost who holds this power and authority on the earth. Father will know if the intent of your heart is pure in your seeking. He cannot be fooled by false attempts or half-hearted role-playing, If you are truly humble and sincerely seeking truth, He will not withhold truth from you and will instruct the Holy Ghost to respond to you. And you will know when this has taken place.


So you are saying then is that I have never experienced the HG in my entire life.

At that point, you will no longer be seeking other people's instructions, or questioning "how" anymore. This is because you will have experienced it for yourself. It is not something which spoken words can describe. Nor is it worldly. It is a communication between the Holy Ghost and your spirit. It is a super-natural experience which does not have an earthly duplicatable comparison.


You mean that one will just know it is the HG, yet the church itself uses many words to describe the HG, even in scripture. Funny that you couldn't even teach what the church teaches on the matter.

I cannot remember a time in my life when I did not love Jesus.


This is a little telling.

I read the Book of Mormon and listened to all the discussions. This was the first church who taught the same interpretations from the Bible which the Bible had taught me in my personal studies.


This would also be true for those whose interpretations closely match say JW, although more likely is that people get convinced by others of a particular religion of their interpretations, and many times think these were there interpretations all along.Funny how the brain and memory can work.

When I fasted and prayed about the Book of Mormon I received a very powerful witness from the Holy Ghost which seemed to enter me from the top of my head and flowed through my entire body.


Now you are trying to use words to describe the experience. You could have just went there from the beginning. I asked this question to see if you or others could do it, and you failed. Even the description above doesn't have much detail to it, but I know what you mean since I have had similar experiences. I think the difference for many is not so much in the experiences itself, but in how they interpret it. Many members and non-members as well will interpret it as God/HG/Gia/Zeus/etc speaking to them. It usually has powerful sensations/feelings/thoughts/emotions with them causing them to attach very tightly their interpretations to the expereince. Many members also tend to be more cautious, realizing that it is also possible and even more likely that the experience can be produced internally. Now don't try to say you will know that it is not because I doubt you or I know just how much the body/brain can produce, or what it limits are.
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_Franktalk
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Re: Michael Ash - Shaken Faith Syndrome

Post by _Franktalk »

I have a set of unique things which defines me. We each have our talents and our faults. Our basic intellect varies as well. All of these add up to an individual personality. And of course how I see the world comes from some of those raw qualities. I can only tell my side of any story based on what I see as the story. Others may see something completely different.

I am always confused when some one says the Bible is filled with errors and it is the work of man. Then that same person hangs around on religious forums in order to argue about things they confess are worthless. I guess they are trying to save people from a life that is wasted. But what alternate life do they offer? They offer a chance to worship at the altar of man? Or better yet a select set of men who set the rules for science? If this is the alternate belief I can see why they are not successful.
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